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Isabella and Buddahisim

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Boom22, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Boom22

    Boom22 I kill VIRTUAL Spanish!

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    I HATE HER... she founds buddhisim too quickly. I mean I think Spain is a good civ but I end up wiping her off the face of the Earth so I can culturally dominate. BTW this happans too me in every game, has this happaned to anyone else?
     
  2. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    When I find Isebela next to me I think "Great, a free holy city!"
     
  3. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Deity

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    I confess that I also hate-in general-how quickly Bhuddism gets founded (or, more to the point, how it and Hinduism crop up almost one after the other). In order to deal with this, my current mod shifts both Hinduism and Bhuddism beyond Priesthood. This way it is much less likely for the two to occur so quickly one after the other. Ket, another modder, has even considered moving Bhuddism past Monarchy (makes sense when you consider that the future Bhudda was a Prince in Hindustan).

    Aussie_Lurker.
     
  4. Inflammatory

    Inflammatory Unsightly Rash

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    The entire religious aspect of the game is somewhat broken. I think it's just plain wrong that the whole world goes Buddhist or Hindu right off the bat and those religions remain unchallenged. The odd civ will have Judaism as its state religion and that's it.

    The problem is that instead of religions knocking each other out, an established religion will only hamper the chances of newer religions to spread. This essentially causes Buddhism and Hinduism to become the indisputable religions of the world, whereas later ones like Islam and Taoism are never let in.

    In fact, Christianity and Islam are the biggest religions in the world today while Hinduism and Buddhism are smaller and more local religions (that's not to say that few people believe in them). I think the flat-out fear of "disparaging" a religion impedes Firaxis in giving newer faiths the chance to "take over", as it were.

    In reality the religions that have been taken over historically are the ones that we today call pagan religions, and if Christianity and Islam were allowed to kick Buddhism and Hinduism off the block we'd basically have a scenario were those religions would be pagan, when the better solution would be if religion didn't spread so easily and if the presence of a new religion could cause the old one to wane. Unfortunately, Civ deals in absolutes both regarding resources and religion (either it's "abundant" or it's "non-existent"), which easily causes imbalance.
     
  5. Civ4rulesTH

    Civ4rulesTH Warlord

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    The trouble is it would be hard to balance. The best option would be too give each religion a few turns after its discovery where it spreads like wildfire but this may be biased to later religions as there will be more cities by this point. Alternatively, and this has been suggested before, instead of a certain religion for Meditation, Philosophy etc. it could be any of the religions and just be completely random. Problem is that is not as historically correct.
     
  6. Bast

    Bast Protector of Cats

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    I've had a game in which Isabella founded NO religions. AND all 7 religions were founded by 7 different civilizations and they all had it as their state religion. It's the first and only time for me.

    I was Elizabeth and founded Islam. The English and Americans were the only Muslims in the world. lol
     
  7. Codeman

    Codeman King

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    it's actually not to hard to control the religion of the world (in civ). spread the new religion to the cities of the civ, make sure they are happy, offer gold or tech to convert. if you have spread to enough cities and they like you, you can have them be whatever religion you want.

    when i was learning the mechanics of how religion works in civ i played many games this way. it's more of a builder style, but can work in warmonger games; though it's more difficult.

    so it just depends on how bad you want your religion to be number 1. spam those missionaries. just as a warmonger has a city always producing units (peace time and war time), you should do the same with missionaries.
     
  8. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    Why not de-select Isabella when choosing opponents?
     
  9. Codeman

    Codeman King

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    it's more enjoyable to beat her than to remove her 'cause you can't beat her.
     
  10. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    That's kind of funny. In my games, the top three religions are of course Buddhism, Hinduism, and Judaism (there is typically at least 2 civs for each), but also Confucianism gets a following. I missed founding it by 3 turns in one game, and the Ottomans converted to it soon after. Another game, Taoism got a major following--I founded the religion on a religion-less continent, and essentially converted half the world to it. It isn't unusual for me to see at least the 3 main state religions in play at once, plus the odd man with a 4th state religion.

    The only religions I have never personally seen get a huge following are Christianity and Islam. Maybe a single country made either of them its state religion once every 10 games or so, but never more than that.
     
  11. DarkFyre99

    DarkFyre99 Prince

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    While it's true that Hinduism and Buddhism tend to dominate, it isn't a foregone conclusion. Judaism, Confucionism, and Taoism also tend to be rather vigorous, and I have had Civs aggressively spread Christianity and Islam.

    When a Civ that hasn't founded a religion founds one, they tend to aggressively spread it, and often make it their state religion. Christianity and Islam tend to be founded by Civs that have already have a religion, which is why they rarely spread. The middle three are less likely to be "second string" religions, which is why they're more common.
     
  12. Gilder

    Gilder Deity

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    Eh, Buddhism and Hinduism can get big, but they don't dominate the world in my games. Just a few nations. I've seen Hatty found Buddhism, then switch to Christianity when it became available. Of course, Alexander converted first.
     
  13. SkippyT

    SkippyT Who?

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    Buddhism is the 3rd largest religion in the world and the main religion in the Far east (except for Indonesia and India..)

    I say no more
     
  14. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    You know, it's a funny thing. I'm playing a continents game, and I haven't met the other continent yet. However, 6 world religions were founded over there, not a single one on my continent.

    That is, until I researched Divine Right. Now, Islam controls half the world! Pretty major following for that one, largest I've ever seen. I think I'll declare a jihad against the other continent with all my new-found allies.

    As a game mechanic, I think it would be interesting if there was a "religious decay", especially under the Organized Religion and Theocracy civics, that allowed one of the newer religions to supplement the older, more established ones if somebody converted to the new religion. I don't know enough about Civ4's Python to make it happen, though.
     
  15. rockinroger

    rockinroger WoC Team Member

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    i also hate isabella, to the point that i will automatically go into world builder and get rid of her, the ***** (xanthippe)
     
  16. a4phantom

    a4phantom Perma-newbie

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    I always declare war on Isabela first if she's by me and gain the Jewish and Buddist holy cities by conquering her. What happens in every one of my games is that every religion but Buddism or Hinduism is founded on my continent (none by me except possibly Confucionism) and the other continent unifies around Buddism or Hinduism.
     
  17. Gigi Duru

    Gigi Duru Chieftain

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    I am still new to Civ IV so for the moment my first thoughts about in-game religion go to the fun of receiving messages like "FDR converted to Islam" (in the same game, Saladin being proud of his hinduism).

    The (real) world history would be "slightly" different this way.
     
  18. Inflammatory

    Inflammatory Unsightly Rash

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    Actually, Mr. Smart-arse, Hinduism is a larger religion, but the gist of my post was that the development and spread of religion throughout history has catapulted Christianity and Islam past all other previous religions. In Civ4 that just doesn't happen which is what my humble appraisal of Civ4's religious model suggested.

    Do take note of the following bracketed remark in my post:

    Please refrain from replying to posts you have failed to thoroughly grasp the primary contents of.
     
  19. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    Hinduism is the largest religion - they got millions of demons to worship!
     
  20. Pogel

    Pogel Warlord

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    A couple of comments:

    1. It's a shame that only the religions that have survived to the present day get a look in. What about the Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Aztec, Incan Gods? While it's weird to see an Islamic FDR, it's just as weird to get a Buddhist Montezuma.

    2. Spreading religion is mostly tedious micro-management - they removed Caravans from the game but replaced them with missionaries.

    I'd like to see a broader number of religions in the game, peppered around the tech tree at around the same level, with random religions each time.

    I'd also like to see religion spread tied more closely to trade and culture, with religion having a chance to spread automatically to all cities on the trade route. Culture could increase the chances of a religion spreading. Missionaries could be added on top of that spread, and would be useful to supplement the natural spread, or to help the strategic spread.
     

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