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Isabella No Cottages Emperor

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Mutineer, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,715
    Well,
    after some thinking and with connection of luck of opinions I decided on Leader and Map.

    So, Settings.

    Emperor,
    Isabella of Spain
    Fractial
    Sea level - normal
    Rundom drow temperature again.
    Normal speed

    Variant: We are not permitted to own cottages, ever.
    current rooster - I change order a bit compare to previous one to stimulate
    a bit more builder orientated strategies and we have open slots.

    Mutineer - Going to start playing soon
    uberfish - next builder
    TheRat - who knows what he is up to
    Acidsatur - Kill everything, no mercy
    Open - we probably need an other brave soul


    Especially with start we roll.

    As you see, start is dificult to decide what to do.

    I am thinking to use warrior to pop hut and look if there fish about, otherwize there diagonal fish visible.

    Start will be dificult with jungless about and no mach shields, but we are expancionist.

    So, team, looking for your opinions as useal.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. T_McC

    T_McC Overeducated Layabout

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    I'd like to play. :)

    My initial thought from looking at the picture is to send the settler W-SW-NW to the Plains tile (?) and leave the cow for the 2nd city. That also looks like it gets two hills in the radius of the capital to offset the loss of the cow hammers. Having the fish in range immediately allows one to build a Workboat first while chasing a Religion (Spain-on-a-Lake :mischief: ) (can probably do the HinJewism double if we wanted), and then build a worker at size 2 or whenever the Fish get netted.

    Food uber alles and two lakes means lots of irrigable grass. The second city could even go 1 N of the Warrior to burn a jungle tile and retain the ability to have a 3-food lake.

    The tech path will have to be thought through carefully if we want to use a lot of GP research. That will have the greatest impact on whether we chase a 2nd religion or not.
     
  3. acidsatyr

    acidsatyr be water my friend...

    Joined:
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    i'd pop the hut with setler and settle there. We'll get both cows and corn.
    our 2nd city i'd settle on that plain on the left as suggested, actually 1W from it (we should scout that area better rather than using setller to do it, and doing so maybe wasting 2 turns).
    Also, i'm not fan of going for early religion, especially since we have jungle on the north, and in this case i often go directly mining->BW->IW
    it depends how sever the situation is however
     
  4. T_McC

    T_McC Overeducated Layabout

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    Location:
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    Well ...

    Acid's suggested settlement and tech path are mutually exclusive. Settling on the hut (and also burning a forest) requires Agriculture and Animal Husbandry to use the bonus tiles. Mining would be an empty tech for us in that spot since there aren't any Hills to mine. Now if he's already opened the save and knows there's a seafood tile in the fog if we settle on the hut ...

    The plains tile in the W only requires researching Agriculture to use both food bonuses since we start with Fishing, and has at least one hill to mine so the Mining -> BW path pays immediate benefits.

    I like an early religion because I expect this to be a whip-heavy game early and having a religion allows us to increase the available productive pop by 1 or 2 for 40 Hammers. It also allows us to be more free in where we found cities since we won't have to always build worthless Obelisks or expensive Libraries to get border pops. I can see the tech path going Poly -> Ag -> Mining -> BW, building Workboat -> Worker -> Warrior, maybe with another Workboat/Warrior mixed in to scout before a Settler. I think the forested hill is in range of the plains tile to hustle the builds along a bit.

    I'm guessing we won't have a close neighbor to the North due to the Jungle, and any close neighbor to the south will be racing us for copper in that direction.
     
  5. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    I would also go for W - SW, then decide where to settle, leave cows for city #2. I am a fan of the non religious path but here we need irrigation and AH before we go for IW, I think.

    And it would begood to have T_McC on board, certainly a nice addition to our illustrious group
     
  6. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Chieftain

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    So you have to pillage all cottages before you capture a city?
     
  7. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Well, you can pillage after, but befor more profitable. :)
     
  8. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Ok, I seems to played 31 turns.
    Please, play 15 first round and 10. Remember, we are playing normal speed.

    Went W and settle on turn 3.

    Research - Meditation (we are buddist)- Mining-Farming-Bronze working (we are in slavery)-Hunting.
    Why? Hunting for archery and second prerequisite for Animal husbentry.
    Originally I was thinking to go alone my Oracle build, but first civ I meat was Alex and then biggest collection of warmonders there(look on picture). There seems to big central again.

    So, securing source of Bronse become a priority.
    And ofcouse Bronse is near Bismark.
    My current thinking, research hunting-archery-Animal hasbentry - Sailing.
    Sailing for trade routes to make our religion spread.

    Try to settle Bronse city - City N2, then city N 3 and then decide what to do.
    But that just me.
    I do think archery is good idea if we are to late for city N2.

    Worker was going to chop this forest, as I am thinking put city in this location, so little hummers better then no hummers and I do not want to waster forests just yet.
    We have allmost second boat builded, as I was growing city for city N3, befor I know about bronze.
     

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  9. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Wellcome T_McC!

    Roster.

    Mutineer - Mess thinks up
    uberfish - next builder - Up Now!
    TheRat - who knows what he is up to
    Acidsatur - Kill everything, no mercy
    T_McC - an other brave soul
     
  10. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Game plan discussion.

    Rigth now after basic tech and may be potery/writing I see it as go after iron working/calendar.
    Iron working let as clear gems and there a lot of calendar resources in Jungle.
    We probably can build 3 cities and go hit germans after that.

    We migth delay alphavit a bit and may be try to research basic tex ourself to delay WFYBTA limit, other option is actially go to alphavit stright after well/sayling/pottery and trade for Iron working, math calendar. Lots of AI around.
     
  11. acidsatyr

    acidsatyr be water my friend...

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    well it seems that my suggestion to settle on the hut was still a good one, and no T mcc i didn't load the save i never do that (did you open the save and had a look before you throw your suggested location however?).
    As i said i think going early for IW seems the best option. And mining that gem is a first step.
    by the way when i said ->BW->IW, this is not a set in stone plan, just a prefered idea in tech terms.

    and how about we whip that settler in capital?
     
  12. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    I have no objections to whipe setler, city can be fixed on size 4, but we really need granary for efficient whipping.
     
  13. T_McC

    T_McC Overeducated Layabout

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    Whipping the settler may only save 3 turns on founding, but in this case I agree it's worth it.

    You don't need to clear the jungle to build a camp, you do need to clear the jungle to build a plantation, but I can't remember whether you need to clear the jungle to build a mine. So I'd probably go for IW after Wheel, but before Archery. We can always drop off and restart Archery if we don't get the Copper.
     
  14. acidsatyr

    acidsatyr be water my friend...

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    you need to cut forest/jungle to build mine yes
    that gem is big +
     
  15. uberfish

    uberfish Immortal

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    Preturn: Start chopping forest where the worker was left earlier

    2320 BC (1): Whip settler for 2 pop. Since we have only 3 decent tiles we're working, it looks like the correct thing to do. Madrid has so much food excess for these early stages of the game that whipping should work out well even without a granary.

    2280 BC (2): Bronze -> The Wheel, if we get the bronze we'll need to connect it up

    2240 BC (3): Fishing boat popped out. It can go explore to the northeast. Worker next to help with the road building.

    2120 BC (6): Bismarck isn't going to like our choice of 2nd city location, since I placed it as close to his as you can get to try and lock down both the copper and gems. I'm building an obelisk straight off. This will give the city a head start on the culture war.



    2080 BC (7): Worker -> warrior

    2000 BC (9): Wheel -> IronWorking, warrior -> settler. Getting ironworking early means our workers can increase our research by building 2 gem mines. Not a lot of time to build libraries yet, as we need to spread some religion around to win the culture war at Barcelona and make a couple of defensive units to be safe. So I think Iron is the right way to go here.

    1920 BC (11): Judaism founded by the computer somewhere. None of the AIs we have met converted. So, either Elizabeth did it or it's someone off on a remote island.

    1880 BC (12): Found some ivory with the fishing boat, but it's 10+ tiles northeast on the coast.

    1800 BC (14): In fact, it's too near MM's land, we won't get that before the AIs do. I'll bring the boat back.

    1760 BC (15): all very peaceful, not even a hint of barbarians yet. (AI scouts have been up and down the jungle.) 2 warriors fortified in the jungle. One fishing boat coming back home. IW due in 12 and settler in 2. Our next city should get the cows and fish northeast of Madrid, I guess.



    Bismarck has ironworking already, he has a worker beginning a mine on a jungle hill. No one has offered open borders yet.


    As noted above, I think we should build a monastery in Madrid next, and start spreading religion around for culture / allies / future shrine income.
     
  16. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    ealry pressure indeed. ok going to get us city #3 and maybe some missionaries
     
  17. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    look good, agressive city placement. Well this city will have bananas for excess food and dyes in future for even more commerce.

    I should be more agressive :) but my reasoning was that bismark is not creative and his religion is second hand one.

    I would suggest to go after pottery after Iron. remember we have 1 pop rush granaties.
     
  18. acidsatyr

    acidsatyr be water my friend...

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    with bismarc so close i say axe rush - fast! But you know me lol.
    Sue for tech or two.

    With shrine and commerce resources we wont need a single cottage here.
     
  19. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    Location:
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    save

    game was at 404 turns, played to 390 turns to even things out

    went for monastery after settler while Barca went for rax for axes
    founded Seville on the suggested spot and started obelisk for expansion
    whipped monastery and went for missionary when suddenly a barb archer appeared from the south

    :eek:


    he manged to kill 1 warrior, then he went to pillage our corn, no choice but the whip an axe in Madrid
    which killed the archer
    killed barb warrior at Barca, sending out the warrior into the jungle again for fog busting

    agree with acid on axe rush, we are making them in Barca already, Madrid is one a rax
    (should get out another missionary) for Seville. Workers connecting gems and iron. We need AH for the

    cows and then pottery.

     
  20. Mutineer

    Mutineer Chieftain

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    Roster.

    Mutineer - Mess thinks up
    uberfish - next builder
    TheRat - who knows what he is up to
    Acidsatur - Kill everything, no mercy - Up Now!
    T_McC - an other brave soul - Going to be blooded soon.
     

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