Isabella of Spain Mastering Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Revent, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Hey everyone, a struggling Monarch player here. I've won a few games here and there, but never consistently. So looking to improve my game with hopefully some advice from the pro's here (who I owe a lot to as I used to be a Chieftain/Warlord player :goodjob: ).

    Game Settings: Big and Small, Standard, Temperate Climate, High Sea Level, Normal Continents, Tiny Islands, Region Separate. Huts and Events on, Normal Speed.

    Isabella: She's spiritual and expansive. Spiritual means there is no anarchy between changing civics which means it's a good diplo bonus tool as I can easily switch between civics when asked to if need be. It also will give me cheaper temples which will be a good source of happiness for cities earlier on.
    Expansive means that all of my cities will get a 3+ health with cheap granaries (and harbour). The cheap granaries will be helpful early on in the game but the health bonus won't make much of a difference for a long time after, although it may save us the hassle of having to rush aquedects. The main initial benefit is that it will give us a 25% faster production of a worker, so I can get that first worker out slightly faster and have him start improving tiles quicker.

    Isabella starts with Mysticism and Fishing. Not the best of techs to start with I think, but it does mean I don't have to research Mysticism for the border pops saving a few turns there. Fishing isn't the best, but in the case I end up stranded on an island, my main priority will be to get to sailing as soon as possible.

    Her UB give me terrain defence bonuses and 50% against Melee units making it a very powerful unit. The citadel gives my seige units +5XP, so with barracks and a settled GG, I could be pumping out CR3 seiges in the game straight away which is nice to have because seige generally does slow down wars a lot.


    Anyway, here is the start:



    It isn't really the best start because I don't have Agri, so if I SIP, starting with a worker wouldn't really be the best course of action as it would be doing nothing for a while. Have a feeling 2S1E of the settler may be a resource because it's surrounded by forests but doesn't have a forest on the tile itself. Tips welcome :) If anyone wants to play along, feel free to. I myself will be starting this game later.

    Well, after playing, I realised that this map sucks :p I took out Jao, had the mids, but my whole landmass sucked lol so I gave up on that and reloaded this start. :p
    So here it is the reloaded version. The start looks MUCH better :)

    Tips/Advice Welcome. The new save is attached.
     

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  2. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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    Interesting. I'd be very tempted to settle on that isthmus 1NW of the warrior. It wastes a green hill, but it makes Madrid a canal city, and--depending on how long this peninsula is--that could be a very valuable strategic point, particularly on Big/Small. I've got a feeling, given the shape of the terrain to the south, that it isn't too huge, though.

    I may even go Mining first with this start, at least so the Worker gets something to do. Then pump Warriors for a while while you tech to AH. Not sure if that's optimal, but AH is a long trek without the prerequisites, and your first Worker will certainly be there first.

    EDIT: Is this your first time playing Monarch? If so, I very, very strongly suggest you re-roll this start. I have a feeling it's going to be a very, very hard map.

    Spoiler :
    One food source in the capital, no Copper or Horses, and you're trapped on a fairly small island with the King of Obnoxious REX hisowndangedself, Joao. There may be some fun post-Sailing, but I think you're going to struggle with this one.
     
  3. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Hey there! :) Regarding moving my settler 1NW of the warrior, that is possible and it could make a nice city, but looking at the map from what I can see (the outlines of the next tiles) it looks like this is all there is to the land below my units so a canal would at best save a few turns and it may not be worth the risk of gaining some 'bad land' northwest. If I really needed the canal, am I right in believing that I could just build a fort 1SW of the settler and ships could go through the fort and city? :)

    Thanks for your comments, much appreciated :D

    Edit: Nope, this isn't my first monarch game, I've won a few so far (and lost a few more than that :p ) I'd like to give this a go. A tough challenge is the most fun one, providing I don't get completely owned :p.

    Edit again: Yup, just checked the thing regarding a fort in a random map generated. Works perfectly fine. The main question is if such a tile should be wasted on a fort.
     
  4. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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  5. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Obvious first move is warrior 1SE onto plains hill to check bfc if you sip (that's a lot of jargon for a short sentence).
     
  6. Chuwe3y

    Chuwe3y Chieftain

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    Still a noble player but gave it a chance
    Spoiler :
    My nearest neighbor, Jao was my target as I wanted to practice rushing. He expanded over the island and I saw the opportunity to take out his northern city as it had iron. Big mistake this guy will not yield. Even when I settle and had horses he had too many armies.
    If I do replay, hint of advice to myself would be have a bigger army and catapult.
     
  7. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Just an update unfortunately :(

    My mother has banned me from Civ :o (Yes I am young enough to still get banned from games by my mother :( )
    Have exams coming up and will put this game on hold until the 19th of June :'( *heart attack*

    (unless I can sneak some time in hehe which I plan to lol)

    @Chewy: Since you're a noble player, you have to bear in mind that the AI now tech faster than you and get various bonuses so you have to play a bit more efficiently. Barbs are super annoying so some fogbusting really helps you out. Also, this is a horrible start! lol So it's not really the best game for a noble player to play haha. But good luck regardless :)
    Spoiler :
    Also, since you're playing as Izzy, you could go for a HA rush and then later on in the game upgrade to Conq's :)
     
  8. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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  9. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    I love playing Izzy. I always play her as a religious nutter, and like to have her raze all the competing holy cities.

    I played one succession game with her where the goal was to found Christianity (Buddhism, but using 'choose religions' option) and then spread it to every city in the world. It ended up not being possible with the limit of only 3 missionaries at a time. Or rather, it might have been possible, but we ended up getting really bored with how long it was taking with only 3 missionaries at a time, so we finally took the AP victory. I think we got 90% of the world that time though. :)
     
  10. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

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    Its a very bad start, not one that I would stick with if trying to learn a new difficulty, or planning on not doing very well at the start of the game.

    I'd at least want some seafood for a Civ that starts with fishing and a start like that.

    I decided to load the game and took a look at the map in world builder since it beats playing it out only to discover how bad the map is, dont click on the spoiler if you dont want to see what I saw:

    Spoiler :
    Sorry, this isnt a bad map after all. Its a masochistic map. The only nearby resources available to you are 1x Cow, 1x Sheep, 1x Coal, 1x Iron and 3x Silk, even LESS than that if Joao your rex monster neighbor expands in your direction, who is dangerously too close to you, and you have no valid options to rush his capital, other than non Pro archers which are not really valid.

    This map is a prime reason for why clicking on 'regenerate map' is not a bad thing for anyone to do.... or also a reason for why attempting a low chance of success archer rush is actually your best opening strategy available, and no theres nothing good or recommendable about this even if it will work.
     
  11. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    Yea this is one of the starts where I go what the frack, and auto regenerate.

    @OP If you feel up to it try and play it out. I would go Agri -> AH -> Mining. And Start Warrior -> worker -> Warrior -> Settler.
     
  12. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Well, I did a bit of studying and after a bit nonsense from the model answers, I decided I needed a break. I continued playing and God, this map is TERRIBLE.
    Spoiler :

    But I had a hunch and I played by that, I beelined towards IW after a BW fail :( And my hunch rewarded me :) I found iron in the BFC. From there, I had all of my 4 cities producing swords. Soon enough, I took out Jao who only had archers hehe. (4 in cap and 1/2 in his other 4 cities). He even gave me the mids and stonehenge :) But then my mum came in and I had to quickly close :( Met Huyana the turn I closed it though so it must be possible to get to him without crossing an ocean. I also got Jao down to his last city and got a couple of techs for peace before killing him. So yes, this map is bad, but it's equally bad for me and Jao which is what helped :p I'll see if I can recover an autosave. But I enjoyed it. It's worth a play for the pros

    [/spoiler]
     
  13. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Hey guys! Following the advice of everyone here, I went ahead and re-rolled the map after realising it is as bad as everyone is saying :lol:


    So starting with this, I'm considering SIP because I think 1SE of the settler is a strategic resource :) For Production: I'll have access to plains cows, a plains hill and possibly the strategic resource if it is there. So this may not be a best production capital but will be a nice settler pump. May later have to relocate my capital though as it isn't the best site, but it'll be good I think.

    I think moving the warrior 1NE should be a good starting move to see if I should really SIP. The lake and two clams mean that this city shall have no problems with growth or health for a long time if I SIP.

    Tech Path: Mining->BW->TW (if there's copper in the borders)
    Thinking this because I already have fishing so AH isn't exactly a priority right now.
    City Build: I'm thinking WB, working the plains hills so it gets out ASAP followed by a worker.

    Tips please welcome! :) I will continue playing this on Friday night! :) I've had most of my toughest exams over so my mother has been a bit more lenient with me on Civ :p Lots of pressure on me though as I failed to get a university offer this year :( So I'm allowed, but they're not happy with me playing too much hehe :(
     
  14. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

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  15. Jex

    Jex Drafted Rifles Are OP

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    I'd consider settling on the wine. That would net you two grassland hills to work, so you can grow to five and work the two clams, cow, and two grassland hills. It is possible that the tile two south of the settler is a grassland hill though, so it's your choice. Either way, move the warrior NE to see if there is anything there before deciding.
     
  16. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Hey guys! As said, I will continue this game on Friday :)
    @Jex, yes I did contemplate settling on the wine, but I found that the production is actually better if I SIP. So here is what I did.


    The Beginning and End of England

    So in the end, I decide to settle in place and going on the resource hunch.



    My initial build is a workboat and tech path I'm going for is Mining>BW>TW



    As you can see, I'm working the forest grassland tile for now because there's nothing better to work yet. :)

    However, a completely different story when the borders pop. I switch tiles over to the plains hill so that workboat can come out as soon as possible.



    Once the workboat comes out, I have the city build a warrior until it gets to size 2. As soon as that happens, I switch over to a worker and work the plains hill and clam for a quick worker :) This is the overall map I have discovered with my warrior. Up north is jungle so I'm ignoring that land for now, and heading down south near the clam wheat and cow. That could be a really nice GP farm in the future. I also managed to see Egyptian borders on the Northeast of the corn so he may be a possible rush target.



    However, those plans to rush are put to an end as I meet Vicky :D I think she won't be too pleased with me hehe. :) *evil laugh*

    So BW has been finished, and I find copper and the worker comes out just in time for it :D :D :D



    Guess it's time to get Vicky out the game so I research the wheel so I can hook up the mine and start building axes. Whilst I'm waiting, I build a barracks as the CRI wouldn't d any harm to me and would be much better than having warriors. :)



    Four axes are ready and a fifth is on it's way now and I think I'll take this chance to take Vicky out. She's not really protected and thats a really nice city that I'd like to use for a GP farm probably.

    Oh yeah, my tech path after TW was Agri>AH>Writing



    So a few turns later Vicky is gone. I was lucky in my timing that she decided to build a city just as I declared war so her cities each had one archer in them :lol:


    Okay guys, I know I'm not really the best creative writer here, but I'd really like to improve my game, so advice on what I should have done/should do now would be really welcome. :) Right now, after taking Vicky, I'm sending my warrior around to scout Ramses. I had it fortified near Vicky to see if I could worker steal :p but that didn't happen so I'm sending him off to Ramses. I see copper nearby his second city so I think I may need to act fast if I want to rush him (assuming he doesn't have horses :lol: )
     

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  17. Revent

    Revent Will SIP

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    Comments:Views ratio is just 0.027. Am I doing something wrong which makes my thread that boring and uncommentable on considering 7 of the posts here are actually mine? :/
     
  18. Shaandore

    Shaandore another mathematician

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    Nice work with the axe rush! :goodjob:
    Now you should focus on expansion, there are sime nice spots to settle. I would tech sailing next for the trade route and lighthouses.

    You have a very nice capital with many good tiles, so settling the gold and ivory for happiness is a priority. After growing to the nice tiles in the cap, you can go worker-settler-woker-settler there.
    And send an axe to scout, and some others to spawnbust.

    I think that you are in a good shape here.
    I'm no professional player though, so take my advice with a grain of salt.
     
  19. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    You got really lucky with the rush here. For future reference on monarch, it's exceptionally rare when you can pull it off with 4-5 axes. Be prepared next time for chopping/whipping 10-12 axes if you're going to plan a rush - most of the time you'll be facing 2-3 archers in the capital minimum.

    At this point you should probably focus on scouting the land - you may not need to attack anyone else for awhile. Ram can be a good trading partner, isn't likely to backstab, and builds lots of wonders, so he is typically pretty soft to kill later on with something like cuirassiers. I would only consider attacking him if you don't find any more decent land from scouting.

    I see at least three more good city sites, possibly four just from the land you've scouted, so I'd suggest getting a few cities settled and sending whatever leftover units you have to scope out the land - assuming you can find a few more decent sites, there probably isn't any need to attack anyone else - if you can get to 8-10 cities without further attacks, you can focus on developing your cities and take other AI out later.
     
  20. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    I'd agree with no rushing atm which means you don't need to build any more axes, swop to worker, use your axes to explore fogbust. May be worth thinking about Glight in capital. One thing to be aware of is barb galleys who enjoy pillaging seafood. Another option to consider is going Oracle>MC maybe followed up by Colossus.
     

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