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Islam comes too late

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by SmartMuffin, Dec 13, 2005.

  1. al_thor

    al_thor Prince

    Joined:
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    Wisconsin, USA
    I'd have to say that SmartMuffin is onto something. I just wonder if it would'nt turn the game too "religion centric". What I mean is, EVERYONE would have a religion, right? And now EVERYONE is doing nothing but building missionaries to spread "their" faith. Yes? No?

    Also, if the above is the case, by late game, all cities would have like 5 or 6 religions in them. The civic Free Religion sure would be a lot more powerful? Too powerful?

    This is thought-provoking, as it would also affect the other civics (Theocracy, Org Rel, etc.) to some degree.

    Needs to be tried & tested........
     
  2. Cu Chulainn

    Cu Chulainn The Unoriginal

    Joined:
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    Or you could improve religion with the discovery of each religious tech. Increase missionary success rate with theology, Increase spread of state religion with Devine Right, Increase spread of religion all over the world with Printing Press, etc.
     
  3. SmartMuffin

    SmartMuffin Chieftain

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    I don't think you guys understand me here.

    My proposal would change NOTHING about the actual game mechanics, only the names. In other words, the exact same Techs would ALL still found religions, only just a random one instead of a pre-specified one.

    All it would do is make it so that Bhuddism wasn't ALWAYS a dominant religion, and that Islam/Tao weren't ALWAYS relativley weak.
     
  4. SmartMuffin

    SmartMuffin Chieftain

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    In other words, the changed tooltip would simply say:

    "First to discover founds a random religion (excluding ones already founded)."

    This tooltip/effect would still be present under all of the same techs: Meditation, Polytheism, Monotheism, COL, Theology, Divine Right, Philosophy

    I guess to keep players in the know as to which techs they can still get for religions, the in-game notice would have to be something like "Taoism (Polytheism) is founded in a far away land"
     
  5. al_thor

    al_thor Prince

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    Oh. Then I did mis-understand. Not so radical after all. Not sure what difference it would make, though. I don't think people care about the fact that ISLAM is too late, it's that the tech to found the religion is too late.

    Myself, I think that things are not bad the way they are. If I don't found a religion, I'm happy to take on someone else's (does seem to make the game a little tougher though). Or I will capture the Holy City from a civ with a wide-spread religion - that is a HUGE jewel.
     
  6. Skippa

    Skippa Noble

    Joined:
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    SmartMuffin,
    Your idea on random religions is 'sorta like a flavour mod. It would spice things up a bit but change nothing about the game mechanics at all.
    Personally I like the way they made the religions to be discovered in historical (or near historical {cough} Buddhism ) order. I just change my play style a bit if I want to attempt to change the religious spread.

    PS So who is gonna make this random religion mod? :undecide:
     
  7. SmartMuffin

    SmartMuffin Chieftain

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    Sorry, double post.

    But yes, the mod I propose would not change the way the game is played at all.
     
  8. SmartMuffin

    SmartMuffin Chieftain

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    I don't even care that ISLAM is too late.

    I care that when it comes to religion, virtually every game I play turns out the same way. It becomes stale and predictable that when Isabella is on my map, I KNOW she's Bhuddist before I ever find her.

    I just think this would spice things up a bit, and allow you access to religions that you might not normally get.
     
  9. BlackMage

    BlackMage Warlord

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    I don't necessarily think Islam starting as late as it does is totally a bad thing. You get bonuses per city with Free Religion for every religion in a city. If you spread it around your empire, you can get some good bonuses.
     
  10. SandTiger

    SandTiger Chieftain

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    Ok so I was going to let it slide, but the story above was repeated in this thread one too many times, and knowing that most people who play Civ IV have an average IQ higher than your usual Joe I guess I'm disappointed in the lack of historical fact checking.

    I'm not here to get a flame war started about this religion is better than this religion, just wanted to make sure that no unsuspecting minds get misinformed because they trust the information here to be historically correct. I REPEAT, I'M NOT TRYING TO SAY ANY RELIGION IS BETTER. That being said, here are some historical facts about Islam:

    1. Long story short, Mohammad didn't have to kill any political rivals. He pretty much did a cultural/religious victory over his rivals in Mecca. There was a total of 5 battles fought over his entire life time, four of them were in self-defence. When he finally 'attacked' Mecca (the power seat of his rivals), there was no battle and the city was turned over to him without bloodshed.

    2. Islam did spread using military, but that only started during the reign of the first Khalifa Abu Baker after the prophet died. Looking at the short time that this period represents in the Islamic history, and looking at how long afterwards that Islam spread without military is very important to put things into perspective. The world was different back then, and we all know what it takes to establish a civilization. ;)

    3. Jews, and other people from other faiths, were fleeing to Muslim cities in Europe and North Africa because it was safer for them than the Christian cities where they were being prosecuted.

    There is more but I think I addressed the points that were brought up so far so I won't boar you with more history. I just want to say that given the above, it is truly truly sad to see the state in which Islam is today and how it is looked at. Not the religions' fault, but its still sad.

    Again, not trying to start a religion debate here, but just hurts my historical moral to see things twisted out of focus. Hope that was informative and not too boring.

    peace.
     
  11. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    and i was almost convinced that "Islam also spread trough militairy powe". was surprised, too. trough military isn't usually so effective. ;p
     
  12. SandTiger

    SandTiger Chieftain

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    Military plays a role in the spread of any civilization. I can't think of a single civilization during those times that did not increase its power through military. But the point is that some did so more than others. And Islam is always thought of in that light more than what is historically accurate. :)
     
  13. Sorceresss

    Sorceresss Witch

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    When I play the Arabic Saladin, I use the WB during the very first turn to create an Islamic misionary and I direct it into my capital...so I found Islam on turn one and adopt it as my State Religion. End of story.
     
  14. Xavier Von Erck

    Xavier Von Erck Warlord

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    This is idiotic. The game I'm playing right now has two Islamic states, Persia and Egypt, who both have Islam as their state religion.

    More whininess by people that don't play the game enough.
     
  15. CaptainEO

    CaptainEO Chieftain

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    I think Islam coming from far up the tech tree is a GOOD thing - it still lets you found a religion later on if you spent the early game researching non-religious techs.
     
  16. zombielordzero

    zombielordzero Chieftain

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    i think something better to do than have a religion picked at radom is expand the early religions a bit:

    basicly have a fill-in the blank for these early religions:

    __A__ the __B__ is the God of __C__ with power over __D__

    and have lists of words that are randomly picked when founding a religion:

    list A
    Bob, Jim, Sally, ...

    List B
    Bull, Bear, Turtle, Fish, ...

    List C
    All, Land, Water, Air, Crops, hunting, nature, war, ...

    List D
    Thunder, tides, waves, earthquakes, nature, volcanos, ...

    so a few randomly generated gods would be:

    Bob the Bear, the God of Hunting with power over earthquakes

    Joe the Fish, the god of water with power over waves

    Sue the wolf, the god of hunting with power over thunder

    basicly have the religions spread the same way they do now, but just have more of them to spread around (each player gets their own religion when researched). another thing to add with this is a civics option :inquisition. this would promote your stat religion as law and tell your citizens to convert or die. (this also would start many, many wars, just like history :) )
     
  17. puglover

    puglover Disturber of Worldviews

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    The religions seem balanced in my game. But Islam is usually the exception. I can get Hinduism, Confucanism, Buddhism, etc. spread around just fine but Islam is harder. I'm just glad that the game is as balanced as it is. It could be a lot worse.
     

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