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Islam never seems to be a popular religion. (In civ4)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Xanikk999, Mar 26, 2006.

  1. Lord Gideon

    Lord Gideon Warlord

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    Well, to answer the question of wether or not they're Christian, we'd have to say what Christian means. Merriam-Webster says a Christian is A: one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. As a Catholic myself, a Christian must 1:Believe what the Bible says is true. 2: Believe Jesus is God's son. 3: Beleive he rose from the . 4: Believe the only way to be saved is by asking his redemption, not by our works.
    Technically, if we go by the dictionary, that makes Mormons Christian. As for what some mainstream groups consider Christian, I don't know enough about Mormons to say if they follow that. Would someone who is more familiar with their faith answer me there? To JerichoHill or anyone else who says they're not, tell me what you define as "Christian"
     
  2. The 777 Hoax

    The 777 Hoax future skeleton

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    My opponents seem to like Taoism...
     
  3. gotmatt

    gotmatt Chieftain

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    which, pardon the generalization, would lead to the historically accurate way Islam spread. it would be cheaper to just lay waste to your opponent and send missionaries to cities that you own instead of trying to convert a neighbour that is "Annoyed" with you.
     
  4. Junichiro

    Junichiro Warlord

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    This discussion has gone outside the topic but I at least don't mind, at least this conversation counts as educational...

    We could take a look at the ecumenic creeds of Christian church, Nicene, Apostles' and Athanasian Creed. These have been written by Christian church to define what is Christian belief, so I guess these should be used as the basis of decision.
    Apostles' Creed opposes several Gnostic views, so that would mean Gnostics are generally not Christians. If later Mormon revelations don't contradict the views professed in those creeds, they would still be Christians even if they had received a bit extra information (after all, plenty of holy Christian men and women have "communicated with God").

    Both Judaism and Islam refuse divinity of Jesus and Holy Ghost, so they are clearly different from Christianity. Similarly, neither Judaism or Christianity admit that Muhammed is God's prophet so they are not the same as Islam (the commonly accepted Islamic creed is naturally "There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is His Prophet.").
     
  5. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Actually Mormons tend to differ on #4 (although so do Catholics so I'd be cautious with that one... too many asterisks),
    However, another one I would add is that there is only one 'god' (I use the little one because Mormons at least officially believe that deification of people is possible although they can't reach "God's" status)
    Now I'm sure different sects of Mormonism believe differently, but that is the closest to standard orthodoxy.
    Which is why when Mormons say Jesus is the Son of God they mean something different than Christians do....Just like a Hindu could say Jesus is the Son of God (and I'm guessing many Hindus would agree with that statement), and would mean something totally different, because they have a drastically different conception of God.
     
  6. BenniusCaesar

    BenniusCaesar Warlord

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    I think it's still useful.

    At the very start of the game Hindu, Buddhist & Jewish religions will pop up and Christian soon after that. Now on an average size world there are probably only about 8 civs? If you had anymore early religions then few civs would share a religion and the effect of 'we love our brothers of the faith' would disappear.

    But later on in the game you may want to get Islam etc. in a lot of your cities for the happiness benefits and the culture benefits and to build mosques and so on.

    Also, Islam was born very late in world history as it is in civ. It has only grown so large due to a freak event of being adopted almost immediately as a 'state religion' by what would be an Isabbella style religion obsessed leader who also happened to be VERY good at conquest!

    ps. Solid, I think your stats have an issue since they add up to approaching 8 billion
     
  7. PetriusTheWise

    PetriusTheWise Chieftain

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    Yeah, it seems to be simply a "pet" religion to those who can research it the fastest. It provides culture and money, but it is never really a state religion. That is unlike what it actually was.:scan: :scan: :scan: :scan: :scan:
     
  8. gotmatt

    gotmatt Chieftain

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    quotes from the infamous wikipedia that would and could not be accepted by pre-latter-day-saint Christians accepting only the bible and not the book of mormon as God-given fact.

     
  9. Hakim

    Hakim Parasocial

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    In real world it seems new religions are more vivid, they spread faster and have more dedicated followers than old religions that becomes "sleepy" after some time. This should be reflected in the game somehow, perhaps by giving each religion a "golden age" that starts as it's founded, giving it more spreading power, cheaper missionairies etc.
     
  10. Elmstr

    Elmstr Warlord

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    I used to take the islam because noone else did. But now i just take the religion the most AI's have
     
  11. Naveed

    Naveed Chieftain

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    Back to the topic. I think religions are correctly distributed according to the timeline. Islam is the 2nd biggest religion in the world right now because of the conquest of Arabians and later Muslims, that's how Islam spread all over the world, even though it arrived late. So, realistically in the game, Islam can only spread, if someone adopts it, and then 'religiously' go on and start conquering the world and start converting it.
     
  12. Yaype

    Yaype Me

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    As to the actual topic of this thread, I agree that it is lamentable that later religions cannot spread as easily as earlier religions. Christianity and Buddhism seem to be the two religions that form the largest factions in most of my games. And although I look at the religions in the game as merely names put to different groups rather than actual belief systems, not having the variety from game-to-game is somewhat lamentable. Religion has almost always supplanted a previous religion (obviously, there was a first one for every given group), and although it takes time for such a conversion, it does happen. Priests are a way of doing this, particularly later in the game, but with Islam coming so late, doing this enough to actually cause a conversion is unlikely with civs that already have a previous religion. But is there a solution that wouldn't make spreading religion too easy?

    As to the off-topic subject that has taken over this thread, I have a few things to say. As another person who grew up Mormon (not practicing now), I am quick to defend the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints from simply incorrect assertions. The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints is a Christian denomination, and I know no way to make that clearer than by emphasizing the name of the Church itself. And if you want to claim that Mormonism is distinct from Christianity because it has some different beliefs, then you will have to do the same for Protestantism, because it also is an off-shoot from the "original" Church (now Catholicism of course). The social sciences may have their own way of telling people what category their beliefs fit into, but the Church of JESUS CHRIST believes itself to be Christian and most members (and even former members) will vehemently defend itself against any assertions that it is not. Everything I can say right now has already been said by others, so I will only say one last thing: the leader of the Church himself says the Church is Christian. Is there any better way to define the beliefs of a religion than by the words of its worldly leader?

    Sometimes, science and religion don't cooperate. :p ;) :lol:
     
  13. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Well the Original Church was actually the now Orthodox, but the fact is that Orthodox, Protestant, and Catholic denominations accept each other* as Christian (even if they view each other's doctrines as damaging, wrong, harmful, misleading, etc.)

    The fact is that none* of the Other Christians call them (Mormons) Christian.

    *In both of these cases relying on overwhelming majorities more than absolutes.

    Now it is possible that may change as Official Mormon beliefs change, that may change, and Mormon beliefs Are such that I'd say it was possible for someone to 'be a Christian' (in terms of receiving salvation from Christ)and 'be a Mormon' (in terms of their saying so). However, official Mormon teaching is not conducive to that. And I would doubt this development because as mentioned before Mormons argue from a Significantly seperate scripture than any of the therr other major branches of Christianity.
     
  14. neriana

    neriana Warlord

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    I've never ever heard of a Christian not calling other Mormons Christians before this thread. Most Christians have the intelligence to know that there are different types of Christianity -- some more legitimate than others in their various views.
     

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