Islands - Never Fear A War

Graeme the mad

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Well not quite but ive just realised something - if you are on an island all by yourself you can put warriors on every coast tile and there will be no way of invading your island until marines come along - you are completley saafe. Now this has probably been realised b4 but if it hasn't then isn't it great - any fool can make enough warriors to do that on a medium sized island - you cannmot be taken over - ha!

I think this o****s as a bug and supports my idea that ship and missile bombards should be able to kill (oh yeah)
 
True but that will take a huge army. Even if your city is on a 3x3 island it will take 8 troops to keep the place safe. Only the one hex islands can be true fortresses.
 
I have never seen the AI use marines anyway. I don't use this exploit for aesthetic reasons, and because it truly destroys the 'reality' of the game.
 
This is pretty obvious, but I'll toss it in... Short of the 'seal your entire island with warriors' approach, I find myself often doing the following: knock out the other guy(s) on my island/continent... I take their cities, but their culture is nuked, so they have little borders that leave big unclaimed areas. While I'm building up, someone (seems like it's usually England or Egypt, go figure) lands settlers in the gaps between the cities. Now I'm back to having to share my island... So, to prevent this, I park warriors along the shore in the gaps between city borders. As the city borders expand, I can pull them off this duty.

I'm still vulnerable to an invasion if they declare war, of course, but often they don't want to do that.... they just want a low-risk land grab.
 
Yeah, but why bother? I have yet to see a truly frightening sea invasion from the computer.
 
Originally posted by ChickinSht
Yeah, but why bother? I have yet to see a truly frightening sea invasion from the computer.

Me either. Especially since no unit can move on the turn it lands.
 
I think this whole thread is much ado about nothing. After all, this problem is the whole reason marines exist. They get to attack a square, and if they are victorious, they occupy it.
 
Originally posted by ChickinSht
Yeah, but why bother? I have yet to see a truly frightening sea invasion from the computer.

It's not to prevent a truly frightening sea invasion... It's just to prevent pesky settlers grabbing part of my island. If I let them land, I'll have to either let them have part of my island or go to war against them. The little gaps are there because I just *finished* a war.... often I don't want to go right back into one.

And (this is the most important aspect to me) sometimes when you do take their little newbie cities, you find yourself in a big, hard-to-prosecute war for little gain: until you land troops on their island and threaten their cities, they often won't acknowledge your envoy when you try to settle.... You have to launch a major naval invasion.

Nothing wrong with that, but I'd rather do it on my own time table.
 
Originally posted by ChickinSht
Yeah, but why bother? I have yet to see a truly frightening sea invasion from the computer.

While i have. forty ++ unit landed on one turn and one whole line of transport coming. Must have been around 20 transports.

You may ask why so many, I had been pulling them into wars for many many years. AI keep building units but never got the chances to use them, so they overflow :D
 
is it realy that unrealistic. Honestly what happened at D-Day? there was a landing at a beach and it was fully gaurded. In most military landings on beaches they have been gaurded. So i dont realy see a problem in this. Mind you i'd never do it b/c i'd need so many troops to seal my continent off :).
 
I had the Aztecs drop a stack of 30 infantry on my coastline once. I never even saw the transports (bug anyone?) come by and drop them off next to a size 13 metropolis, it happened all in one turn! NO warning. I click on the stack, contact the Aztecs and say move 'em, they declare war! This is a Civ I had always had polite relations with, they were in awe of my culture and now this $&!@ happens! Luckily I'd been stockpiling cossacks for just such an eventuality.


"do or do not there is no try."
 
Originally posted by eyrei
I have never seen the AI use marines anyway. I don't use this exploit for aesthetic reasons, and because it truly destroys the 'reality' of the game.

I have had some particularly nasty marine attacks from AI, the marines get an attack bonus when on amphibious assault, but not on land, so they can actually kill mech inf. when amphibious. I use them sometimes, in modern invasions.
 
Tell me more about the amphibious attack bonus. Is this documented ? What is the % increase attack bonus ?
 
I think that marines attacking from a ship negate the bonus of walls or city size unless the city has a coastal fortress. One of my favorite tactics is to fill two transports full of marines (16 of them) and attack a major city of the ai. I will lose most of the force, but always manage to take the city. I then raze it, give them the finger (in my mind), and sue for peace.:midfinger :lol:
 
Originally posted by Buecephalus
I had the Aztecs drop a stack of 30 infantry on my coastline once. I never even saw the transports (bug anyone?) come by and drop them off next to a size 13 metropolis, it happened all in one turn! NO warning. I click on the stack, contact the Aztecs and say move 'em, they declare war! This is a Civ I had always had polite relations with, they were in awe of my culture and now this $&!@ happens! Luckily I'd been stockpiling cossacks for just such an eventuality.


"do or do not there is no try."

After many games, one thing I have learned is that (in the early/mid game) there is no such thing as "polite" relations with the Aztecs or Japanese. They are very agressive. If they act polite, they are just building troops waiting to attack you. The only way to keep them peaceful is to beat their butt in 2 or 3 wars...then they should step off. This is why I hardly play my native Americans, the computer almost always starts me with the Aztecs or Japanese as neighbors and that means I have to fight an early war.
 
quote:
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Originally posted by ChickinSht
Yeah, but why bother? I have yet to see a truly frightening sea invasion from the computer.
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Me either. Especially since no unit can move on the turn it lands.

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I never saw a really good amphibious invasion in Civ 2, either. It'd land some units and maybe be a pain, but that's it.

BTW, if only one unit is occupying a tile (that includes scouts and workers and explorers) you can't land. That is not realistic. A large landing force should be able to overwhelm a tiny garrison at ANY period in time. Marines (20th century variety) assaulted heavily fortified areas. There's a difference.
 
I never saw that!!

I once was playing as the Americans and launched a huge invasion of the Russians. I headed 3 carriers, 3 loaded transports, plus BB's and Aegis, right at Moscow. After a huge battle I took their capital and they broke up into civil war,

I then retrieved the saved scenario and let the AI take over as the Americans at the turn just before the invasion force, at sea, attacked.

Know what the AI did?? WENT BACK HOME TO PORT!!!!!! :lol:
:crazyeyes :crazyeyes
 
I think a more realistic way to handle amphibious assaults would be to lower(say cut in half) attack power of non-marines when attacking from a transport. Well maybe just lower the attack of fast units(after all it's harder for a tank to roll off a transport, through the coast and onto the beach then for a guy to walk through it) and keep the infantry attack the same, seeing as marines get a boost when amphibious assaulting, or lower the fast unit attack moreso than infantry types. Something like
mobile unit - atk at 50 or 67% power
infantry - atk at 100% power
marines - atk at whatever bonus they get

I kind of sealed off my continent in the game I'm playing right now. Well, I'm playing Archipelagos, and I'm on the top left of the map(huge map, 10 civs). Egypt is about 7 ocean squares south/southeast of me and constantly at war with me. I have two smallish continents(for a huge map that is, about 7 cities worth on one and 4 on the other), separated by one square which i plugged off to protect my northern cities, luckily you can't go immediately from one end of the map to the other norht/south, like you can east/west. I would be screwed then, Egypt's continent is huge(they wiped out the Iriquois so they have about 50 cities or more, compared to my 20 or so). And most of my southern coastline(okay, all of it) is completely plugged with rifleman(I'm in early industrial age), and hell, that is a lot of rifleman, upgraded all the way from spearmen. I have almost 80 total, about half are outside my cities, so about 35 are used to protect coastline and the other 5 are scattered around on key resources or in mountains or whatnot. A lot of those tiles have fortresses on them too to prepare for when they get marines, before I got to railroads my workers had nothing to do so I had them build craploads of fortresses. Sure, Egypt can send tons of frigate/galleon combos around my continent and invade me where I am relatively unprotected, but that gives my ironclads(definately leave several ships spread out among all the sea invasion routes to spot invasions early while you still have time to sink the fleet) time to sink them all. In fact I am in the process of now eliminating a 5 frigate/galleon combo that I would not have time to sink if my southern coastline wasn't defended(they would have landed on my southern coastline). So it was lucky I made that move while I was at peace.

So even if you can't make your island or small continent a complete fortress, fortifying the coastline closest to them is still useful as a tactical maneuver to stall an invading enemy. Provided you start this long before you have to worry about them invading you. I got the Lighthouse so nobody could reach my continent till they got Navigation and could traverse ocean squares cause the only two routes had 3 ocean squares between them, so I just plugged those two pathways with a few ships for the early game and I'm completely protected.
 
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