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Isn't a bit paranoid?

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Strategy & Tips' started by mzprox, Sep 27, 2008.

  1. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Hungary
    This is my second game that i played till the declaration of independence. I have heard that producing liberty bells early leads to huge REF forces so i started to generate them around turn 100, at the same time when i started to raise my army. I read some other tricks here, i think they are too cheesy/exploit like, however it seems there is no other way... in this game i had a very strong start, nice land lots of treasure etc. at turn 200 i was ready to start the fight. now look at this:




    Thats what i call paranoid...

    ofc i had a plan.. tried to be tricky but this just was too much... 60% tax rate already so getting money wasnt very easy. (btw anyone else got that when you are refusing the tax raising 2 turns later the king comes again to raise the tax... it happened with me many times, even with the dutch guy who increase the time between taxraising..)

    back to the story: my plan was that i recruited lots of lumberjacks and hided some weapons in ships so maybe the king dont look at them as threat. and i dont think he does. his army was already huge when i started to get these lumberjacks, and i just couldnt gather them fast enough, he raised his army every 4-6 turns. here is a picture from the same turn when i mobilized my army:




    someone said that my troops should have the upperhand, here is a picture about the odds:



    in my other post about my other game i have lost 17 battles out of 20 in a turn so i just gave up again at this point...:(:(:(

    some thoughts:

    -i played my game in a way i thought was intended and somewhat historical accurate. i cant belive the devs want us to start generating the liberty bells like a bomb. it was and should be a process
    -i may have saved lots of money if i dont import lumberjacks but recruit my ppl instead. i just didnt like the idea to recruit my elderstatemen :)

    i wonder how the testers played it... are they forcing to use exploits or what?
     
  2. GenocideBringer

    GenocideBringer Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    628
    For one, I don't think that a REF that big is unusual.

    For two...Do you think the colonies gradually got more and more pissed over time? They didn't. I don't know exact dates, but around the early-mid 1700s, people started getting ticked off at taxes, lack of representation in Parliament, etc. And yes, this tiny rebel sentiment DID historically expand like a bomb. Not going to bore you with all the historical details but there were a few specific incidents, people and such that led to a very fast growth in support for the rebellion.

    That coincides pretty well with the way it works in game.
     
  3. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    It's hard to comment on this game (you should post a save) but from the pictures I have some basic concerns about how you managed the economy (I'm not trying to be rude just giving some general advice that might be helpful).
    You've built lodges on light forests which are generally medium (ie bad) output of everything. Just like in CIV I feel you're better off min/maxing. Do whatever is best in a tile as a general rule, even more so in col2 perhaps because you can make up any deficiencies by trade routes between your colonies so that you supply a colony whatever it needs.
    Those tiles should be deforrested and used to provide the best output they can give in this case: ore for the hill, tobacco or food for the grassland. Normal (ie thick) forests are good for lumber and furs, light forests not so much. I could certainly understand there being no need for anything than wood say in a very late colony but Fort Nassau is only the second or third.
    Also there seems to be no farm on your corn tile, was it pillaged?
     
  4. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Hungary

    That village is a bit underdeveloped, i just used it to build ships and cannons mostly, and new colonists as it had 2 fish. those light forests still gave me 14 wood/tile, so its not that bad. if i dont use them then i had to transport the wood and there was already too much transportation. That corn tile is not irigated because there was a native village on that. They disbanded it later.

    anyway somehow i had to get the money to buy 50+ lumberjacks and arm them :). also almost all my citizen was professonal, ihave bought them from europe. here is a picture of one of my economyc colony ( i had one very similar, the rest was only support for resources):

     
  5. Dale

    Dale Chieftain

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    How long has that city been producing with 3 elder statesmen?
     
  6. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

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    i dont remember exactly but quite long :). i gradually bought the statemen from Europe. At this point every city (of 7) had 3 of them. i heard it's not good producing liberty bells very early so i have started around turn 100. I didn't know how long would it take and i wanted a few founding fathers as well.
    Now i've just finished reading some "how to win the game" in other words " how to be even more cheesier :) " i refuse to play the game that way, (I'm refering with the low pop cities and getting the +2 pop per city option. it's a good trick btw :) )

    ah... i just may go back to col1 :)
     
  7. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Well I think you should at least try to make the push for liberty bells a short one, so get printing presses and newspapers in place.. if you're getting any political FFs that help with bell production by building political points get them as well, then fill up all your town halls (preferably with a pre-educated elder statesmen horde) at once.
     
  8. Basarin

    Basarin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2006
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    60
    I generally agree that if you're going to declare independence, dont' make it gradual: do it in a span of thirty or forty years. Like Machiavelli says, if you're going to have to do bad things, do them all within as short a times pan as you can (unfortunately, you can't do it all in one day like he suggests).

    Once I was in the 1680's or so and I had a good infrastructure going (the Dutch colonies in my run were making good amounts of money via the cigar and cloth trade. Business was overflowing to the point I needed merchantmen to transport them all in one go), and I had an inland foundry/arms industry going. I rushed my statesmen into the colonies and by the late 1700's, I was ready to go. I managed to maintain a rough number of about twenty militia, seven dragoons, ten cannons and a few Frigates and Ships of the Line (and a few Great Generals here and there) against about 90 Regulars, twenty Dragoons, and fifteen artillery pieces.

    NOT a walk in teh park to be sure, but it's winnable, especially if you decide to try out commando style tactics by daring raids into the rear of the enemy formation. Expect to lose them, but also expect the terrain and rebel fervor to make sure they take a few of the Royalist scum with them (which makes a surprising amount of difference).

    And I'm hazy on the actual numbers of the REF, but my head's still spinning that I actually WON.
     
  9. Zhahz

    Zhahz PC Gamer

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    Sounds like you played a solid game but mismanaged rebel sentiment. Learn, adapt, do better next time. One small tweak (start generating bells later) to your approach and you'd probably win. Is that so big a deal?

    (You can generate political points without bells...)
     
  10. mzprox

    mzprox Chieftain

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    Yes, now i know how should i have done it, but i just dont really like that. Even if i dont do any cheesy tactics there are still a few points which i dont really like:

    -big cities are bad because it's too slow to raise rebel senitment. my colony above is very nice but it should have been 3-4 different colony: 1 making the guns, one the cigars etc
    -i should have neglected the liberty bell production even if i miss the founding fathers
    -i should have stock lots of weapon/cannons b4 my colonist even think about independence
    -then buy/train elder statemen put them to cut woods untill there are enough in every city and when the time has come use them like a bomb.

    these steps are actually very easy to make, i just liked the old way better, and i dont think i will change my mind :)
     
  11. marstinson

    marstinson Chieftain

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    For the sake of historical accuracy - 1763 (end of the Seven Years' War). So going from happy colonists to revolution in 12 years (Lexington/Concord in April 1775). Although I should also point out that John Adams later said that he thought it was 33/33/33 - a third for independence, a third against and a third that just wanted to be left alone.
     
  12. ElCommandante

    ElCommandante Chieftain

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    May 19, 2006
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    If you are worried about losing the FF's, just do what I did and wipe out the other colonies ASAP. One dragoon can do it, and you are getting your pick of EVERY FF, as the other colonies take a little while to get their point production up.
     
  13. Viperace

    Viperace Chieftain

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    mzprox,

    I think the prob is your cannons. You have 50+ of them around and I supposed you built them gradually. That counts toward your army, and the REF will increase in response.
     

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