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Israel invades Gaza

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Gogf, Jan 3, 2009.

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  1. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I'm under the impression that the majority of the reprisals are one-to-one attacks (trying to get the people who fired the weapon) as well as Hamas government who're invoking such attacks.
     
  2. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    Let me guess. He played part of one of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos and promptly blew up.
     
  3. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    :lol:

    Okay brennan, your done. I don't think you even comprehend the enourmous mental circle jerk you just jumped into.
     
  4. civaddict098

    civaddict098 Prince

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    The key word there is avoid. Nothing says there wont ever be, or shouldn't ever be collateral damage. by firing mortars or tank shells or whatever they were obviously trying to avoid civilian casualties. Where as they could have called in a bombing run.
     
  5. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    Oh they should have just called in Jack Ryan or Jason Borne. Didn't you know brennan has done this a billion times from his keyboard, only had to reload twice!
     
  6. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    The idea of proporionality is ridiculous.

    Should the Isrealis abandon all their modern, high speed, low drag equipment and wear ski masks and carry AKs into Gaza just to be fair? Should they abandon precision air strikes for street made pipe bombs, or innacurate rockets? Just to be fair?

    OF COURSE NOT. It is one of the most ******** arguments around.
     
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It's got to be hellishly expensive to respond to Hamas strikes with high-tech reprisals. That's an attrition that's really hard to win.
     
  8. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

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    It is, and what is one of the best returns for that money? Fewer civilian casualties.
     
  9. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Oh yeah, they're making the right decision. But if they don't figure out a better way of ending the Hamas strikes, it's the attrition that's going to bite their butts.
     
  10. civaddict098

    civaddict098 Prince

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    In international law, proportionality is based on the goals of an action, not on the weapons used.
     
  11. nonconformist

    nonconformist Miserable

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    Haha, you're funny, with your racist ethnic stereotyping aren't you?

    Actually, he's a Palestinian musician who was stopped at an Israeli checkpoint, in his own coutnry, and forced to play the violin for the troops, which, by the way, happened in the Warsaw Ghetto and Concentration camps
     
  12. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

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    Both are part of destroying Israel, no? So I would assume that both would be 'good' effects of a Hamas attack from Hamas's point of view

    I agree with everything except Hamas's intent on maximizing casualties in Palestine. If the casualties become too large, than they'll be blamed and there'll be a popular revolt. Currently, the casualties are within a range where it feeds Hamas's propaganda machines.
    I wouldn't be too sure about that. Again, if Israel manages to minimize civilian casualties (which will be EXTREMELY hard), and follows up this war with soft-power tactics designed to lessen the influence/power of the Gaza Strip, then there will be a good chance of Hamas's power base being uprooted.

    Well, generations of Gazans have grown up with the 'big, bad' neighbor who has repeatedly invaded them, shelled them, and killed their families. IMO it's expected that most Gazans view Israel as the source of their current poverty/plight.

    It's not just the misery that Hamas has heaped on Gaza. It's the fact that it's virtually guaranteed for poverty, violence, and a brutal lifestyle to breed in one of the most densely populated areas on Earth. Combine that with abandonment by their 'allies' and annual war, as well as the regrettable fact that there continue to exist ethnic and religious tensions between the largest economy in that region and Gaza, and you've got a source of power waiting to be tapped. Hamas tapped it, and it may be more than they can handle. For now, the Hamas leadership has been smart - they've furthered their own ends by tapping into this pool of anger. The only way to destroy Hamas is to reduce tensions and to provide other, more peaceful and efficient outlets for the justified frustration of the Gazans.
     
  13. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    Protecting your citizens is worth it though, wouldn't you say? Besides there are more costs to consider than money. Isreal goes out of its way to avoid civilian casualties and provide aid for those it does hurt, and look how the world reacts. Imagine if they responded with less expensive methods. Higher casualties all around.
     
  14. capslock

    capslock Emperor

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    Hamas fires rockets at civilians.

    Isreal targets Hamas leadership and rocket sights, invading IOT stop the attacks.

    Q: Whats the prob?
    A: Morons fail to grasp simple concepts.
     
  15. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I disagree. A few years ago, Hamas was the democratically elected government of Palestine and were poised to enter international negotiations with some legitimacy. Now they are a band of murderers and everyone knows it (especially after they slaughtered Fatah).

    They've gone from a potential legitimate government to bottom-of-the-barrel terrorists. Many of them have been killed and the rest are in hiding. A good chunk of the world is calling for thier utter destruction instead of recognizing them as the elected government. Even local support went from a vast majority to ~16%.

    And what have they accomplished? Killing a few random Israeli civilians and a bunch of Fatah. That's all. They managed to kill some defenseless people - that's their legacy.

    It's been an ugly, downhill slide for Hamas. Calling that success is a desperate attempt by someone to prop them up. You've been had.
     
  16. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Hmm, you're going to have to explain to me how the Israeli's killing more civilians than the palestinians makes them the good guys again Pat. :rolleyes:
    They could have nuked them as well. Which would have been 'avoiding' casualties by your argument by way of not being an H-bomb. Proportionality is the key word. Killing a couple dozen civilians to prevent the launch of rockets that have a remote chance of killing someone is not proportional. Is it?
    ... Imagine the woes of agreeing a peace treaty and pulling out of the West Bank.. I mean, they sure as hell wouldn't get elected next year...

    Do you seriously think this is going to stop the violence?

    Q) why do people continue to believe that violence is the answer?
    A) Because it always failed before...
     
  17. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, remember that they were hamstrung as a government as soon as they won the election. I don't know if 'slide' is really the right term.
     
  18. civaddict098

    civaddict098 Prince

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    I hope your not calling me a moron because I agree with you. I was saying that in response to all the people who say Israel should only use small arms, etc...
     
  19. Merkinball

    Merkinball Deity

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    That's okay, when mosquitos bite him, he pulls out a reeeeeeaaally small needle and sucks their blood back in small quantities. That way its proportional. You and I, we're terrorists for smearing them all over our arms.
     
  20. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    Point being, they have accomplished none of their goals while losing popular support (globally and locally) dramatically. That can hardly be called "smart" or a "success".

    Note, I was responding to this:

     
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