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Israel/Palestine? Are people brainwashed by media?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Sidhe, Jun 5, 2008.

?

Who do you support?

Poll closed Aug 4, 2008.
  1. US: Israel

    19.7%
  2. US: Palestine

    5.5%
  3. Canada: Israel

    3.9%
  4. Canada: Palestine

    1.6%
  5. S.America: Israel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. S.America: Palestine

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. European (including Russia): Israel

    7.9%
  8. European (including Russia): Palestine

    10.2%
  9. Asia: Israel

    1.6%
  10. Asia: Palestine

    1.6%
  11. Middle East not including Israel: Israel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Middle East not including Israel: Palestine

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Israel: Israel obviously are you mental?

    2.4%
  14. Australasia & Oceania: Israel

    1.6%
  15. Australasia & Oceania: Palestine

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. Other country (Africa etc): Israel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. Other Country (Africa etc): Palestine

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. I'm for/against neither/ neutral/ on the fence.

    22.0%
  19. Both of them suck, they can all go to hell in a hand basket

    18.9%
  20. Send in the radioactive monkeys!

    3.1%
  1. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Yeha, I'ma gonna fire my gun in the air! Is my reaction to that.

    This just strikes me as induced by not really understanding the situation in Palestine. So much so that I thought I'd start a thread to see if such one sided views are common place here on CFC, not being here for a while, who knows the situation might of changed a bit? Being a fence sitter myself, I tend to think that Israel and the West is equally culpable of the problems in the ME. Especially since the legacy Sharon left and considering the woeful consideration of where the partition plan was doomed to lead.

    But do you think some people and I by no means, mean American are completely brainwashed into thinking its all a one sided series of affairs, perhaps they watch only Sky or Fox, Or Al Jazeera or read only the Guardian, The Independent or The Daily Mail? Just how much do you think peoples opinion of what is an extremely complicated affair is spoon fed them by their media. And how many people, and I count myself amongst them actually know the history from 1895 to 2008? And how many people genuinely are informed enough to have a really honest and open opinion?

    Because the more you surf the web, the more you see comments like the above that whilst not the worst I've seen - believe me, racism from both sides is not exactly unheard of - appear to be said with all the passion and honesty of someone who really believes that Palestinians will make everything up and are not really suffering to any great extent? Apologies if that isn't what was inferred, but meh it still makes an interesting thread topic.

    To recap: do you think your opinion is informed or is it misinformed? Do you have a balanced set of information on which to make informed opinions, in your consideration? Do you know the score?

    Ok I realise this is an emotive issue and since the last thread about the issue was locked, let's keep anger/racism etc in the happy box. See: FAQ, for the rules.

    Poll also, nationality and who you support.
     
  2. Halcyon

    Halcyon 9000

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    930
    People want to see sides, to know which ones are the good guys and which ones aren't. That way they know who to back! Except, the Israel/Palestine situation is so grey and desperately unresolvable that neither party can fairly be called good or bad. Sometimes just picking a side and sticking with it is easier for people to live with, so that's what people do. People want to know that the world is just and fair and right, and they're willing to overlook a few things to get that assurance. It's not intentional or malicious or anything, it's just really really human.

    It's like... rival sports teams, or console wars. Where people have to know that they picked the right one.

    It probably doesn't help that most people don't know much of the history or the politics involved. It's pretty much human nature to trust what others say in situations where you aren't sure of the facts. We've all done that. Probably always will.
     
  3. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Human nature is always a really poor excuse for anything, particularly because in theory most people should be sophisticated enough to overcome it (I emphasize in theory here), but that does in no way invalidate your point. Lethargy and ignorance though, should be no basis for an opinion about anything. I mean the phrase "better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt", springs to mind... Not that you can't have an opinion, but if it is just picking a side because you're personally too lazy to do your homework, then your opinion is much more difficult to justify obviously.
     
  4. QuoVadisNation

    QuoVadisNation keeping your angel alive

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    US: I do not support either state. Mainly because I feel both Israel and Palestine/Middle East have unrealistic expectations that I find disagreeable personally. (see: mindless Zionism, 'peace-loving' Muslim theocracy). I would however agree that people are brainwashed by the media to go one way or the other on this issue and also by other means as well.
     
  5. JohnRM

    JohnRM Don't make me destroy you

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    How can I be for or against people I've never met, living thousands of miles away involved in events and conflicts, the origins for which I have no true measure nor any reliable basis for which to judge the ongoing situation? Am I supposed to trust the media? The government? The United Nations? The only source of heresay that I trust is that which comes from my family.

    All that I can tell you is that it seems that there are two groups of people over there who are fighting over the right to live on the same land. They can't seem to agree to live on the same land together, apparently because they have differing beliefs and that among these beliefs it would seem that at least one group, if not both, feel as though there is no room for other beliefs.

    I am not going to condemn either side for the conflict. The very fact that they've been engaged in continuous violence and warfare toward one another for thousands of years is enough. What worse condemnation could we confer upon them?

    What I am left with is a feeling of commiseration for how desperate and helpless it is for everyone directly involved in this sad situation.
     
  6. Holycannoli

    Holycannoli Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
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    One side likes to blow up shopping malls and supermarkets, the other doesn't. So you know who I support.
     
  7. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Oct 5, 2006
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    Canberra
    Winning post.

    The cheerleader approach to international politics is disgusting.
     
  8. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
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    24,103
    Location:
    High above the ice
    These two posts say all I wanted to say.

    :hatsoff:
     
  9. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

    Joined:
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    England
    "Israel's" Irgun et al blew up hotels, train stations and cafés killing quite a few innocent civilians in the collateral damage, although they claimed that civilians weren't their targets? Yeah right, so that's why you targeted military bases right? In fact back in the day when Israel was hopelessly outmatched by the English military, it was the only way they could fight effectively to get their radical Zionist message across to a country that wasn't always in Israel's corner.

    Case in point of people who are not aware of history. That sounds fairly hypocritical if Israel only gave up terrorism in the early 80's, presumably after they enormously out powered Palestine militarily.
     
  10. Holycannoli

    Holycannoli Deity

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    I knew, I just knew, someone would mention collateral damage as if there's no difference.

    Intentionally targeting shopping malls and supermarkets is not the same as collateral damage.

    And I'm not looking at 30 years ago, I'm looking at now. 30 years ago is 30 years ago and doesn't count if those actions aren't being repeated today. When one side employs suicide bombers and rocket attacks on innocent civilians, I'm going to side against them, especially when the other side's attacks are only responses to attacks. They aren't targeting Israeli military, they're targeting civilians. And I can never, ever condone that. This isn't the 1940s.

    If the tables are turned in the next few years and it's Israel using suicide bombers and sneak rocket attacks on innocent civilians, I will change my opinion. Until then, let Palestine burn for all I care.
     
  11. Sidhe

    Sidhe Deity

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    Supposedly their targets weren't civilians but when you bomb a hotel full of hundreds of civilians, Arab, English and Jewish diplomats to be precise. Then the collateral damage is civilians whether your intent was to kill them or not, I think you should read the history of Irgun, I guess you missed the irony. ;)

    Israeli terrorists have also assassinated prominent Palestinian figures and or blown people up who were civilians in targeted killings. You it seems are one of those people who has no real knowledge of the history, don't kick yourself most people haven't the first clue. Irgun most definitely targeted more than just the military as have other Israeli paramilitaries in history.

    Please its only not happening now because the need for geurrilla groups became superfluous when Israel obtained an absolutely monumentally superior military. Now that's not necessarily evil per se, but terrorism happens when the forces are imbalanced, saying that was 30 years ago is woefully ignorant, and you have misguided/uninformed views of the events that lead the Israeli paramilitaries to put away their semtex and assault rfles in the late 80's quite frankly.

    Good God you need access to reality, preferably a history book, a media source or two that isn't full of it, and anything else you can find in the ether methinks. You are precisely the sort of lazy partisan person the above poster was referring to. See post#2.
     
  12. Volum

    Volum The Zapper

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    I think both sides are at fault, and i dont see any solution anytime soon. Someone in Hamas will always fire rockets, and Israel will always fire back. It does not matter what happens, theres always gonna be another rocket.
     
  13. Mirc

    Mirc Not mIRC!!!

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    What about bombing airports? ;)

    I think both are very, very guilty of what's happening, and I don't see a solution anytime soon. IMHO, Palestine is more "right" in the issue BUT it would not be great for the world at all if they would win and kick out the Israelis.
     
  14. Ecofarm

    Ecofarm Deity

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    I would say that the REAL problem is not the media brainwashing observers.

    The REAL problem is the islamofascists brainwashing poor idiots into blowing themselves up in order to kill innocent people.

    Stop that brainwashing and we will not have to worry about the other.

    Address the source, not the symptom.
     
  15. Gabryel Karolin

    Gabryel Karolin Gammelgädda

    Joined:
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    I don't support either.

    Its pretty much an unsolvable situation. Colonialism in its deaththroes decides to give away someone elses land to a third party, of course the people living there will object. That state is an anachronism and should never have been created. But now its there, and we can't well move the Israelis away again.
     
  16. I'm Cleo!

    I'm Cleo! Deity

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    I chose "Send in the Radioactive Monkeys," because I think that both sides have solid majorities that simply want peace, and vocal minorities that won't let that happen. There are Palestinians who commit unforgivable acts, but I can't say that "Palestinians" are responsible, just like I can't say "Israel" is responsible for what some of its people do. The "side" I pick is the one with the peaceful Israelis and Palestinians who just want to live their lives.

    Cleo
     
  17. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

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    you are one unswervingly reasonable man, cleo.:goodjob:
     
  18. Pannonius

    Pannonius Reconquistador

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    I voted for the option: "Both of them suck, they can all go to hell in a hand basket."
     
  19. ~Corsair#01~

    ~Corsair#01~ Deity

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    I'm not really tempted to say I "support" one petty band of militants or another.

    Israel's policy towards Palestine is counterproductive in that it only fosters further support for terrorists, it leads to high levels of civilian casualties and they don't seem to have any intention of changing. "Tried, failed, let's keep trying the same thing over again!" In my opinion they would accomplish more by interfering less overtly in Palestine. Some people seem to have developed this idea that every terrorist attack by Palestinians must be responded to by means of some sort of strike in Palestine by the Israeli military. In reality, this only leads to more deaths with no appreciable gain in security. Israel plays right into the hands of the terrorists which is why they are still around after so long.

    As for the Palestinians, I tend to regard both Islam and militants with high suspicion and the combination of the two doesn't exactly charm me. However, they are still people, with a suffering civilian population who require the assistance of the wider world to work out an agreeable settlement. I don't think building a big-ass wall around them and then putting them under embargo necessarily help that process along. Terrorism cannot be destroyed by military force while it's popular support base remains intact. Palestine must be made a functioning area and waiting for terrorism to stop before trying to build an economy there is putting the cart before the horse.
     
  20. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    I want a "Support both" option.

    Being against a Palestinian state is a nonsense position, if one wants Israel to be democratic, safe and at peace with its neighbours.

    Of course, if one is willing to give any of those three things a miss, a viable Palestinian state becomes optional. Though what bloody good it would do Israel in the long run escapes me.
     

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