Yes because that makes perfect sense. The jews have such a historical tie to Montana. Why not give them a chunk of Germany instead?
Didnt they almost put Israel in like, Argentina or Brazil or something?
Yes because that makes perfect sense. The jews have such a historical tie to Montana. Why not give them a chunk of Germany instead?
You do know they look just like the "natives" right? You do know they are all semites, right?
Because that is exactly the base of nationalism.But why can't they both just use that pride to maintain thier own uniqueness in a single state? If they both beleive so strongly in thier history, faith and culture, then why would they ned an artificial construct like a state to keep it alive?
This is the obvious and idealistic solution that isn't ever going to happen, or...IMHO, make a single state, give everyone equal rights and let them bring thier problems to the courts. In the meantime, start a program of truth and reconcilliation, and bring tough punishment to those on either side that want to 'rock the cradle'....
That is very very false.
A lot of Jewish citizens of Israel are immigrants from other parts of the world - say, ex. Soviet republics.
That is very very false.
A lot of Jewish citizens of Israel are immigrants from other parts of the world - say, ex. Soviet republics.
Fleeing is different then leaving willingly because your leaders promised things they couldn't deliver.
Was every pallie killed who didn't leave? Where did the arab Israelis come from? What about the pallies that sold their land to the jooz? If the natives wanted to keep their land mabey they should have stayed and not abandoned it.
That's a stretch and an unreasonable assumption. I'm merely pointing out that a sovereign land has the right to control life in it's borders, so long as it's not genocidal. Do you want to try to give a reasonable argument this time?
We must admit that structurally, i.e. independently of the impact of particular policies, the interests of Israel and of the Diaspora are at loggerheads. Israel was created inter alia, to offer the Jews physical safety. Today the State of Israel adversely affects the physical safety of the Jews, both within its borders and elsewhere. In spite of the might of Israel's armed forces, Israel is the only place in the world where a Jew can be killed just for being a Jew. Today the life of a Jew is in greater danger in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv than in Paris or Berlin or even in Damascus or Tehran.
Moreover, the chronic conflict engendered by the establishment of the State of Israel has spread waves of Jew-hatred to most Muslim and Arab nations. The current intifada ignited sparks of anti-Semitism in many parts of the world, including Western Europe, which had been free of anti-Semitism for several decades. Indeed, the chronic character of the Israel/Palestine conflict was an important, albeit not the only, cause of September 11. This observation does not apportion blame or justify terrorism; it simply states an obvious, albeit little articulated, connection between the creation and perpetuation of Israel as a Jewish nation-state and the unprecedented spread of regional violence to the rest of the world. Rwandans, Bosnians, or black South Africans did not spread violence to other parts of the world. Palestinians, frustrated by their fight against Israel, did.
You're deliberately trying to derail this discussion, and so is angrybellsprout with his anti-european ramblings. The Palestinians (that's palestinians, can't write the word, can you?) of the occupied territories never left, and those territories are the ones being considered as a future palestinian state.
Um... Are you sure the Israelis want to be "unleashed" in some war of extermination? My impression is the exact opposite. Which is why US fighting talk about not "holding Israel back" is, I'm afraid, rather empty rhetoric. This is what "duking it out" looks like. Israel has removed every military threat from that quarter. It solved nothing. Bummer. Time to negotiate.I'm looking at it like a [America conquers the Indians, then has to give up isolated lands to appease them later] scenario. If Israel controls the lands, let them. Palestinians can leave or try to win it back. Whatever... tired of the world holding Israel back. Let them duke it out and let there be peace. We are just prolonging a war and forcing it to span generations, thus making the hatred run deeper.
Thin? Compared to expediently forgetting that half the world and the entire Pacific Ocean divides the Chinese from the Americans? If 1,2 million Chinese suddenly turned up in the US, Americans certainly would notice, and loose control of the place. Technology is useless under the circumstances. What you could do is of course to erect an all-out apartheid police state. Funnily most Israelis feel downright iffy about that prospect as well. Better negotiate something then.Oh, and number of people arguments are thin. China has a much larger army than the US, but the US has enough tech advantages to keep them at bay. Same is true for Israel.
Yup, that's usually how nations start. There were no Palestinians at a not to distant point, just "us people from the village of X". Then Planet Israel landed on them. Suddenly they looked around and realised that all the people of villages X, Y, Z etc. were united in the common destiny of having been landed on by Israel. That's the essence of collective national identity, the feeling that "we have a common destiny". They do, as a matter of fact.I'm having a discussion about pallies and Israelis. How exactly is that deliberately derailing anything? But since your the thread moderator......I can write Palestinians just fine I chose not to waste my time with it. Until the Arabs needed a pawn the term didn't exist. Palestine is a region. Thats like me calling myself a Mid-Atlantian. And speaking of the occupied territories. Who do they belong to? All those refugee camps are set up on whos land?
So none of them have a blood line from the Semites in the area? Being a Jew isn't just a religion its an ethnicity. And the claims of jewish ancestry by most of those russians are dubious.
Very very good post.Yup, that's usually how nations start. There were no Palestinians at a not to distant point, just "us people from the village of X". Then Planet Israel landed on them. Suddenly they looked around and realised that all the people of villages X, Y, Z etc. were united in the common destiny of having been landed on by Israel. That's the essence of collective national identity, the feeling that "we have a common destiny". They do, as a matter of fact.
It's not as if there were any Israelis a hundred years ago either, just a twinkle in Theodor Hertzl's eye. They also became a nation, not to an unconsiderable degree by landing on the people who to their misfurtune in the process became the Palestinians.
So, the Israelis and the Palestinians begat each other. Strangley there is a tendency on some parts to conventiently want to forget one half of the equation.
The Plaestinians certainly exist now. Like all nations they are a product of history. Just like the Israelis, and every other nationality. Too bad if that history is inconvenient in some ways.
These are very different peoples. By the same scenario, do you think Americans and Canadians could share the same state? They are one of the most similar neighbors in the world, yet I'm sure several would be appauled by such a notion.
C~G said:Because that is exactly the base of nationalism.
That pride of being different and the story of survival people together have about themselves (especially in the hardships involving other nations).
The idea of peace comes only second after this since it holds together what you are, almost your whole identity especially when the nation is young.
This is the obvious and idealistic solution that isn't ever going to happen, or...
Maybe in the far future they could form single state but currently the idea is the same as molding US and Canada together.
Why don't they do it?
It's an ethnicity defined by religion & culture. An african-american convert to Judaism is as much Jewish as any other Jew.. and not semitic in any way.