Israel vs. Hamas - Thread III

[Sidhe]

War is always gruesome. Take away the reasons to conduct warfare from Israel and there will be peace in no-time.

Easier said than done.

 

[eastsidebagel]

Easier said than done.

Especially for everyone who's posting here. We have absolutely no influence on the situation in the Middle East. And I my case, I would detest the image of me being a politician who had to find a solution over there. Honestly, I think I would just crack up under all this pressure and responsibility. I thought about some paths to achieve peace in the past, but eventually such thinking is just a waste of time.

 

[Verbose]

Now, this is the kind of news I like from that part of the world:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3662822,00.html

Naalin holds Holocaust exhibit
'Unfortunately, we are paying price for pain suffered by Jews,' says member of village committee

Roi Mandel Published: 01.27.09, 20:47 / Israel News

As the world commemorated the Holocaust Tuesday, a small village in the West Bank held a surprising exhibit memorializing the most tragic event in modern Jewish history.

Naalin, a village that has become the symbol for the Palestinians' battle against Israel's construction of a separation fence in the West Bank, erected a display of photographs purchased from Yad Vashem Holocaust Museum and invited the public to learn more about the persecution of the Jews.

[...]

"The Holocaust," Mahmid said, "was a horrible and methodical murder of six million innocents, which affects all of the citizens of Israel even today. The Palestinians need to understand that the Jews have a defense mechanism deriving from the horrid murder in the Holocaust."

He said the two-state solution would only have a chance to succeed if the Palestinians made an effort to understand this "profound pain", and relinquished all acts of violence "that stirs existential anxiety in the Jews."

 

[Sidhe]

Especially for everyone who's posting here. We have absolutely no influence on the situation in the Middle East. And I my case, I would detest the image of me being a politician who had to find a solution over there. Honestly, I think I would just crack up under all this pressure and responsibility. I thought about some paths to achieve peace in the past, but eventually such thinking is just a waste of time.

At least you're wise enough to realise that your opinion means nothing.

I have a really good understanding of the history, that's why I don't sit back and make arm chair general decisions as some knowless people do based on what they see in the media. Seems wise.

 

[eastsidebagel]

I'm honestly surprised to learn that!

 

[eastsidebagel]

At least you're wise enough to realise that your opinion means jack . .. .. .. ..

That's right, but nonetheless I love defending them.

 

[Sidhe]

That's right, but nonetheless I love defending them.

Ah good on ya. Me I like to swim against the tide, I'm impartial, so if the people are anti one side I go to the other. It's all just a sideshow, but can be fun.

I'm honestly surprised to learn that!

Sorry was that directed at me?

 

[eastsidebagel]

Sorry was that directed at me?

No, but at the article on the Holocaust commemoration by some Palaestinians.

 

[Verbose]

I'm honestly surprised to learn that!

It is pretty much a first, so yes, it is surprising. Nothing about the Holocaust is taught in Palestinian schools for starters.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Now, this is the kind of news I like from that part of the world:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3662822,00.html

Indeed. I can't wait for Israel to hold a similar exhibit about how the Palestinians have suffered and been repressed since the latest occupation of their homeland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly, with a two-thirds majority international vote, passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181), a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control. Jewish leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted their portion of the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it and refused to negotiate. Neighboring Arab and Muslim states also rejected the partition plan. The Arab community reacted violently after the Arab Higher Committee declared a strike and burned many buildings and shops. In a speech delivered on 25 March 1948, US President Truman recommended a temporary trusteeship and stated: We could not undertake to impose this solution on the people of Palestine by the use of American troops, both on Charter grounds and as a matter of national policy.[133] As armed skirmishes between Arab and Jewish paramilitary forces in Palestine continued, the British mandate ended on May 15, 1948, the establishment of the State of Israel having been proclaimed the day before (see Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel). The neighboring Arab states and armies (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Transjordan, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army, and local Arabs) immediately attacked Israel following its declaration, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War ensued. Consequently, the partition plan was never implemented.

The Palestine Liberation Organization has enjoyed status as an observer member at the United Nations since 1974, and continues to represent "Palestine" there.[137] After the 1988 declaration of independence, the State of Palestine was formally recognized by 117 United Nations member states.[138] Palestine is also represented at international sporting events, like the Olympics and Paralympics and films from Palestine have won awards at international cinema events, like the Oscars. (See also Cinema of Palestine).[139][140]

 

[eastsidebagel]

Indeed. I can't wait for Israel to hold a similar exhibit about how the Palestinians have suffered and been repressed since the latest occupation of their homeland.

The evil zionistic, imperialistic, child-slaughtering Jews won't never consider that. BTW, I'm sick of your hatred, Formie. Get laid or something.

 

[otago]

An Israeli and a Palestinian fighting.
Over what will be on the menu of the cafe they own together in Auckland NZ.
Like South Africans of different colours, people from the Middle East find they have a damn sight more in common when they are a long way from where they emmigrated .
Interesting thought on flags.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4828899a11.html

 

[YonatanBlum]

An Israeli and a Palestinian fighting.
Over what will be on the menu of the cafe they own together in Auckland NZ.
Like South Africans of different colours, people from the Middle East find they have a damn sight more in common when they are a long way from where they emmigrated .
Interesting thought on flags.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4828899a11.html

It's a sad fact that in most conflicts, the opposing sides do not and cannot meet and know each other. Which obviously just makes the conflict last longer. You can't do much about it, when people are fighting each other.

 

[BasketCase]

So peace was possible when Hamas wasn't behind the wheel?

Dunno. I don't remember who was behind the wheel before Hamas got their hands on it.

Don't go looking at it in black and white, though. Just because peace is impossible with Hamas at the stick doesn't mean peace will be possible when they're not. But from where we stand now, the only way to have any chance at peace is to remove them.

Side note: Looks from today's news like the rocket fire started up again (though I only saw two confirmed firings in the headlines on TV). We could be seeing another invasion of Gaza pretty soon. And since the rocket fire only came to a halt while Israel was IN Gaza, the next occupation could turn out to be permanent.......

 

[Dachs]

Dunno. I don't remember who was behind the wheel before Hamas got their hands on it.

Fatah?

 

[otago]

It's a sad fact that in most conflicts, the opposing sides do not and cannot meet and know each other. Which obviously just makes the conflict last longer. You can't do much about it, when people are fighting each other.

Maybe those in the sixties who chanted make love not war have had the the right idea all along.

 

[jessiecat]

Maybe those in the sixties who chanted make love not war have had the the right idea all along.

We used to think so. But good sex doesn't solve everything. (Though it helps.)

 

[ori]

Just as an update on the School Bombing from the first thread in this series:
remember this?

Some 30 people were killed and 55 others injured, five of them critically, when three artillery shells landed at the perimeter of a school, which usually serves as a girls’ preparatory school, in the Jabaliya refugee camp, according to John Ging, UNRWA’s Director of Operations.

well apparently John Ging does not work for UNRWA after all :

The United Nations has reversed its stance on one of the most contentious and bloody incidents of the recent Israel Defense Forces operation in Gaza, saying that an IDF mortar strike that killed 43 people on January 6 did not hit one of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency schools after all.

It seems that the UN has been under pressure to put the record straight after doubts arose that the school had actually been targeted. Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, said Monday that the IDF mortar shells fell in the street near the compound, and not on the compound itself.

Gaylord said that the UN "would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school." UNRWA, an agency whose sole purpose is to work with Palestinian refugees, said in response Tuesday that it had maintained from the day of attack that the wounded were outside of the school compound.

note: this does not make the whole thing good - 43 dead most of them probably civilians is bad - but UNRWA is pretty much a party in this conflict and as such not a reliable source, which makes the UN's role there extremely problematic in the context of having any somewhat neutral international bodies seek to mediate in humanitarian matters.

 

[Patroklos]

I am not familiar with that second source, what is it?

 

[ori]

haaretz is a leading israeli newspaper (the most left leaning of those with an english language website - if that matters )
They are usually pretty* reliable in their reporting - and of the Israeli sources certainly one of those that at least acknowledge the Palestinian side...

*in terms of this conflict - there is no perfect source out there