Israeli Neo-Nazies?
- Thread starter ArneHD
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Judaism is a religion, but being a Jew is also an ethnicity or a nationality.
Anyway, they are DEFINITELY not Jews in the religous sense. And this Eli might have had his name changed when he arrived. Eventually, you are what you think you are, and they obviously don't consider themselves as Jews (what with being Nazis and all).
Peng Qi said:
That might make sense in some way, but the fact is that the difference if it even exists is pretty negilible.
Jawz II
Oh Dear
Oh yeah he had his name changed to Eli to fit in better with the nazi crowd is what youre saying?
I would buy that they mightve migrated to Israel in order to whatever, be able to make money or study or etc, but the changing their names to jewish names while not considering themselves to be jews?
Cow Dung.
I would buy that they mightve migrated to Israel in order to whatever, be able to make money or study or etc, but the changing their names to jewish names while not considering themselves to be jews?
Cow Dung.
Quoting myself.
They obviously didn't immigrate to Israel being "Nazis".
And maybe he didn't change his name, doesn't really make a difference.
The point is that they were Russian-born immigrants to Israel with weak links to their Jewish identity. They obviously had a lot of trouble adjusting in Israel and decided to embrace this "Nazism" as some sort of frustration outlet.
They obviously didn't immigrate to Israel being "Nazis".
And maybe he didn't change his name, doesn't really make a difference.
The point is that they were Russian-born immigrants to Israel with weak links to their Jewish identity. They obviously had a lot of trouble adjusting in Israel and decided to embrace this "Nazism" as some sort of frustration outlet.
Julian Delphiki said:
Corrected.
nivi
Call me Ishmael
Ah, of course, that good old mantra, there are no bad people, only bad situations.
Bunch of bollocks that is.
Trouble adjusting in Israel? Leave, that is the main core of people leaving Israel BTW, semi-jewish people coming from former USSR, taking the jenerous package and leaving.
Bunch of bollocks that is.
Trouble adjusting in Israel? Leave, that is the main core of people leaving Israel BTW, semi-jewish people coming from former USSR, taking the jenerous package and leaving.
1. 2000 years is an insufficient amount of time for any significant development. So we are considering situations with very primitive levels of technology a long, long time ago.
2. Solidarity is generally more important than intelligence towards winning conflict given primitive technology. So even if there was a significant amount of evolution, you'd probably just expect more solidarity (so perhaps more racism and hatred out outsiders).
3. There is no evidence that supports your theory. Intelligence tests don't show any significant intelligence variation between races after you account for socio-economic status and other important factors.
Peng Qi
Emperor
Yes and no. Tests specifically designed not to factor in informational knowledge, focusing entirely on problem solving still show Africans scoring lower on such tests. You can again say there are external factors, but that doesn't change that there is evidence to support such a theory.
You can improve your results on such tests through practice and other environmental factors. You aren't really making the absurd statement that the only difference between someone in a good school/environment and someone in a bad school/environment are the facts they are exposed to?
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Gaza, the west bank, are more or less 2 large refugee camps, why are they refugee camps? Becuase after the war they fled Israel, and Egypt, Jordan, said STOP, drop you're things and settle where you are. It's shocking I know, but they stuck them in limbo,not giving then citisenship. What, nations wouldn't just accept a million palestinians refugees as citisens? Ummm Yes.
You're leaving out the part where Israel took their land to build its lebensraum...
The thread is appropriate, we're discussing the validity of ideas defending that some parts of a nation's population are inferior and do not deserve to be citizens, are we not?
It that belief was wrong when the nazis held it, it remains wrong today. Ig Germany's policy of ethnic cleansing (its first approach to the "jewish problem", prior to the holocaust) was wrong, then so is the ethnic cleansing you're defending above for the palestinians.
skadistic
Caomhanach
How is it ethnic cleansing when there are arab-Israelis that live sweet lives in Israel? Wouldn't they be kicked out? Wouldn't life be made super hard for them so they move out? Wouldn't they be barred from politics? Or is that all just smoke and mirrors?
If I hired Israel to clean my house and did as poor a job as they do in their "ethnic cleansing" I'd demand my money back. Its like the slow 50 year genocide where the population has increased for the pallies instead of decreased. But its a genocide!!!!
If I hired Israel to clean my house and did as poor a job as they do in their "ethnic cleansing" I'd demand my money back. Its like the slow 50 year genocide where the population has increased for the pallies instead of decreased. But its a genocide!!!!
nivi
Call me Ishmael
Please everyone, I've already told him to open a new thread, lets not make this topic a Palestinian/Israeli topic, espicially since this is begging for nazi comparisons (which I see he already made).
As they say, do not feed the trolls.
As they say, do not feed the trolls.
skadistic
Caomhanach
Nivi does Israel have any laws against nazism like Germany does?
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Can you understand what you read? I'll quote again:
Those were Nivi's works, and my comment was addressed to him because of those words: if they are refugees, and ethnic cleansing must have occurred. If they are not refugees, then they must be the original population of the land, and Nivi's argument for not granting them citizenship is spurious.
Not to mention that he writes as if he's sorry for Israel not having been able to push them out of the territories following the war: those nasty countries next to the territories didn't wand the refugees, Israel got stuck with them. It's Egypt's fault!
Pushing people out of a territory as a result of a war is always ethnic cleansing, whether they go "willingly" out of fear, or are forcibly transported. Or would you argue that the albanians fleeing Kosovo in 1999 were doing so "willingly", and the US and NATO were wrong in waging war on Serbia to let them return?
Ah, I understand why that could make you uncomfortable. But can you deny that there are similarities between the treatment of palestinians as second-class citizens in the land where they were born, and parts of the nazi's ideology and attitudes towards the jews? I certainly would feel uncomfortable, if I was israeli.
nivi
Call me Ishmael
Israel laws are actually much lesser then Germany's, but there are already suggestions for change in the Knesset, don't be surprised to hear of Eli's law pretty soon (sometime laws are made because of specific incidents, and the person who caused the change will be named).
skadistic
Caomhanach
What do you think that law would encompass? Are we talking outlawing symbols, speech or groups?
nivi
Call me Ishmael
It's still in the very first stages, it will most likely include groups, beyond that I do not now, but the punishment sugested is prison time+ after that revoking citisenship+deportation.
All studies show Jews have higher IQ than "Aryans": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_intelligence
It's a myth that you can't change your IQ score (or other intelligence scores) through practice, education, and other environmental factors. In other words environment plays a significant role and such studies typically don't take that into account.
Bast
Protector of Cats
Israel really needs too look at the Law of Return and decide on case by case basis. My guess is that this bunch really only came to Israel to escape the poverty and developing conditions in Russia. I actually wonder if they had a jewish relation, they could probably make it up - in Russia.
Anyway, they're not jewish. This isn't even close to a self-hating jews - there are self-hating jews but that's clearly not the case here.
Anyway, they're not jewish. This isn't even close to a self-hating jews - there are self-hating jews but that's clearly not the case here.
