Issues in Civ VI to fix in Civ VII

Malexander

Chieftain
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
6
Edit: Title -> to fix not fax, typos.

Instead of writing a C7 suggestion thread, I thought it would ne better to address issues I had in C6.

Factions & Replayability
Faction bonuses implementation in Civ VI tend to predeterminate the way you play the game. For example, static bonuses in generated culture tend to put you in a tunnel of culture win playstyle. This is a thief of joy, because the player can already see in the starting screen how the game will play out and the player becomes less exited to actually play the game out.

Faction bonuses should be implemented in a way that do not lock player in specific play style or win condition. All factions should have some bonuses in regards to all winning conditions; the difference between factions would be in the potency of the bonuses. The bonuses could be tied to the environment; special improvements / structures that require specific env. tiles or potency from specific tiles / resources / etc. This would make each game more about discovering opportunities in the environment to use your faction advantages to win the game with a nonpredetermined win condition.


Special Units
Overall each faction should have more special units and preferably in several eras to keep things interesting through out the game. Similarly as in previous section, the units could be tied to environment, resources, tile improvements and special structures. Some imperialistic factions could have more special units than others.

To give some examples of new mechanisms to create a special units: A city would have to produce 5 culture from faction specific tile bonus (desert, forest, tundra, etc.) to produce a faction / era specific special unit. Other units might just require a resource in order to be produced or a faction specific structure built on specific env. tiles or faction wonder. An example could be a Warrior Monk, which would require mountains and mountain temple structure + Iron resource in order to produce them.

Religion
Religion spreading in C6 is laborius and tends to take lot of effort from the player. Religion spreading should be somewhat automated without entirely discarding the special units because it can be a fun a part of the game. An example of automated religion spread mechanism; a city would have certain amount of religious power based on religious buildings and bonuses and the religion would flow to other cities automatically with trade routes and roads. Missionaries and other religious units would be used to make way for the new or competing religion to make it spread faster or to prevent religion from spreading to the land.

AI &Turn Duration
Overall in C6 the AI is more of a nuisance in diplomatic relations than an interesting aspect of the game. It is hard to keep the AI civilizations satisfied or trade with them without getting robbed or betrayed every time. Would like to see some improvements to this, perhaps deep learning based AI solutions that would in a way actually play the game with you or against you.

Especially in late game, the turn duration start to test the players resolve to actually finish the game. Something should done about this so that duration of turns would not become so long that the player just wants to declare himself the winner and move on to the next game. This also is bad for the Hall of Fame feature because unfinished games do not get recorded.

Barbarians
I would like to see some depth added to Barbarian tribes. Perhaps if left unhandled long enough, the Barbarian tribe could develop into a Nation. Barbarians would learn from AI and human players as they scout, attack and pillage, once they have gathered enough intelligence and experience, a barbarian warrior would declare himself Chieftain / King.

This would require that there would be several barbarian tribes designed into the game. To the player all barbarians in map would outwardly appear the same but beneath the surface there would be several different barbarian tribes in game and only a few of them might gain Nation status during a game.

One new play mode could also be to play as a barbarian tribe, perhaps unlocked in some specific way. Development to a Nation would be slow but they would have certain advantages over Nations in early game that would allow them to hold their ground vs. Nations. The Barbarians would have their own science trees but their "science" would be advanced by scouting and engaging warfare and pillaging the enemy Nations before they reach the stage of becoming a Nation.

Thanks for reading.
 
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jsciv69

Prince
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
305
Location
Earth
Settling Cities Outside & Inside Borders
How frustrating is it to see a nice plot of land to settle. Then not being able to put a city there because it's too close to another City's borders. This is where we should go back to the mechanism of Civ-III. Where any land outside borders is fair game. I would like to bring back settling cities inside our own Civ borders. This was another great feature of Civ-III that should return.

Graphics
I know I speak for at least a few that would like a more realistic look. Realistic visuals go a long way towards enjoyment of the game. I think Civilization could develop a look similar to the SimCity series. And add asphalt roads and highways for a true look.

Rethink Religion
Religious diversity was as real in the ancient world as it is today. The more religious beliefs and philosophies a Civ can house, the more it's population grows. And as actually happened. Let's have Religions included in Trading with other Civs. Each Civ trades and adopts different religions from each other.

Starting Era and Duration
I move for an earlier starting age. 8000 BCE would be an ideal start if we want to start with full cities. 10000 BCE would be ideal if we want to start with camps and towns.
The year increments should be reduced to about 10 years per turn. This give our Civs more time to develop and prepare for later eras.

Amphibious
We need to bring back the Amphibious function we had in Civ-III. Where we can land units from sea transports. And we can also bring workers and settlers on transports to colonize overseas.
 

Chekko

Warlord
Joined
Mar 26, 2011
Messages
169
Location
Sweden
I think it would be interesting if Barbarians had more depth but also changed into different types of Barbarians over time. In the Medieval era they can be pirates, aiming more on Naval combat and pillaging coastal cities. In the Industrial era their little camp start to become actual villages and are more on their own and grow into cities with bad roots. In the Modern era maybe they ’Spy’ on other Cities with bad history and do terrorism? But also they have a chance to turn into a new generic Military CS in the Industrial era if they are treated well or have been more on their own I guess.
 

jsciv69

Prince
Joined
Jul 16, 2016
Messages
305
Location
Earth
I think it would be interesting if Barbarians had more depth but also changed into different types of Barbarians over time. In the Medieval era they can be pirates, aiming more on Naval combat and pillaging coastal cities. In the Industrial era their little camp start to become actual villages and are more on their own and grow into cities with bad roots. In the Modern era maybe they ’Spy’ on other Cities with bad history and do terrorism? But also they have a chance to turn into a new generic Military CS in the Industrial era if they are treated well or have been more on their own I guess.

One's Barbarians is Another's Comrade
I like the idea of early barbarians as strategic allies. Especially useful in early battles.

Barbarians becoming Pirates is a great idea. Which brings me to a hope of bringing the Black Market to the series. Perhaps modeled after the old Pirates game from Sid Meier. Where ships and storehouses are raided by Pirates. Then they trade these goods with willing participants for a "reasonable price" Illicit traded goods are also a are also a major enterprise. The idea of a Narcotics trade comes to mind. And in the Modern Age and later. These Pirates turn into mafia gangs, and dealers. Just something to ponder.
 

Malexander

Chieftain
Joined
May 4, 2022
Messages
6
I forgot to mention the loyalty system that restricts too much where you can found a new city. Usually the negative loyalty factor comes into play after you have settled your 4th or 5th city, which is quite restricting.

Loyalty could serve some use in diplomatic relations and in espionage. The more loyal your people are the harder you are to spy on. Agreements between civilizations could also go more in your favor if the difference in loyalty would favor you.
 

codacman

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
3
Some ideas from me:

1) Better AI who is pursuing victory actively. We need to be surprised, we need even to lose at higher difficulties without even meeting someone (imagine that!) In general, a more difficult game

2) I love the districts but some of them, they need a buff (e.g. Aqueduct, Dam - maybe some combo of fresh water infra, Encampment). Also, some more diversity of buildings within the Districts would be great (maybe one building per area available?)

3) Trading - Even better and more complex trading system that you could stop any trader at any time, or you sign some more realistic trade deals with the AI. Maybe trade bonus resources as well which can provide some food/growth bonuses?

4) War and Units - At least one more line for upgrades possibilities, and these upgrades to matter more to have a bigger impact. Also, the support and flanking bonus to be a little bit higher to be more realistic

5) Stronger navy units and use of aircrafts properly from AI...
 

Henri Christophe

L'empereur
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
2,073
Location
Rio de Janeiro, K11 (Kwanza)
Add more Native American tribes to the game.
That I really agree, civ 6 had less native americans then civ 5 (!) That's a shame.
I'm in favor of continental quota... per exemple. If we have 60 civs, each corner of the world (Asia, America, Europa and Africa) should receive 1/4 of the civs, I mean, 15 civ for each continent.
 

AffineConstant

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 25, 2022
Messages
8
Religion
Religion spreading in C6 is laborius and tends to take lot of effort from the player. Religion spreading should be somewhat automated without entirely discarding the special units because it can be a fun a part of the game. An example of automated religion spread mechanism; a city would have certain amount of religious power based on religious buildings and bonuses and the religion would flow to other cities automatically with trade routes and roads. Missionaries and other religious units would be used to make way for the new or competing religion to make it spread faster or to prevent religion from spreading to the land.

Maybe "automated" is the wrong word. But "not so manual" would be good. IE It'd be great to see incidental things, besides trade, flow along trade routes for example. Religion, cultural impact (whatever that is in VII) could flow back and forth too. So making, or even receiving, a trade route could be more of a calculated thing beyond just the resource gathering.

Same with borders. Entirely closed borders could be a foreign policy (no foreigners here thanks!), limiting religion/culture spread, but maybe there could be a game mechanic where open borders, not militarily but just "civilian" open borders, gives science and gold bonuses. So you have to make the tradeoff of whether you want extra science/gold with a neighboring country, in exchange for being exposed to their culture/religion as well.

Graphics
I know I speak for at least a few that would like a more realistic look. Realistic visuals go a long way towards enjoyment of the game. I think Civilization could develop a look similar to the SimCity series. And add asphalt roads and highways for a true look.

Not sure it has to be "realistic" per se, V was stylized to look like an old time strategic map of an empire with movable markers and such, and it looked great.

Civ VI looks kinda like garbage because the person in charge of art decided everything had to be as "readable" and "understandable" as possible, sacrificing any and all sense of aesthetic or style whatsoever to make it happen. It wasn't even a problem that needed solving, I don't think anyone ever played V and thought "Wow I wish I could understand this map screen better".

Get a person that cares at all about making things look nice and that should solve the biggest issue there. There's a reason two of the most popular mods for VI are things that make the game look less like garbage.
 

Zaarin

Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
11,260
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Babylon 5
V was stylized to look like an old time strategic map of an empire with movable markers and such, and it looked great.
Civ5 certainly had a nice looking UI. I can't think of anything else from Civ5 that looked nice, though. The map looked like mud, the leaders looked like animatronics, and the color palette was all grey and brown offset by a few muted hues. Civ5 came out during the "realism is ugly and desaturated" phase that thank goodness has, for the most part, died and had a stake driven through its heart.

Civ VI looks kinda like garbage because the person in charge of art decided everything had to be as "readable" and "understandable" as possible, sacrificing any and all sense of aesthetic or style whatsoever to make it happen.
You're conflating two different things: "not liking an aesthetic" and "not having an aesthetic." Civ6 has an aesthetic; you just don't like it.
 

AffineConstant

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 25, 2022
Messages
8
Civ5 certainly had a nice looking UI. I can't think of anything else from Civ5 that looked nice, though. The map looked like mud, the leaders looked like animatronics, and the color palette was all grey and brown offset by a few muted hues. Civ5 came out during the "realism is ugly and desaturated" phase that thank goodness has, for the most part, died and had a stake driven through its heart.


You're conflating two different things: "not liking an aesthetic" and "not having an aesthetic." Civ6 has an aesthetic; you just don't like it.

Not at all, I fully contend Civ VI had absolutely no coherent aesthetic whatsoever. It had functionality, and I contend "pure functionality" is not an aesthetic choice so much as a lack of one, if it had an "aesthetic" it was "don't care".

Now you can not enjoy Civ V's aesthetic. The old somewhat tanned map look was part of that, and if you think it ended up looking like mud then that's well and good. But it definitely did have a coherent aesthetic,. And I'd expect that a different coherent aesthetic would be pleasing to many. I'm arguing not for a specific aesthetic, but any coherent one at all. Get an art director for sake of art, not an art director that's only concerned with functionality.
 

Zaarin

Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
11,260
Location
Babylon 5
Civ VI had absolutely no coherent aesthetic whatsoever. It had functionality, and I contend "pure functionality" is not an aesthetic choice so much as a lack of one, if it had an "aesthetic" it was "don't care".
This is a very strange take, and, while it's a nice break from people crying over "it's cartoony" or "it has colors brighter than beige," I don't think there's any reasonable response to it beyond you're wrong. Of course functionality is and should be part of the aesthetic--a mess like Humankind is what you get when you ignore the functionality of your aesthetic--but "pure functionality" without consideration of being aesthetically pleasing is a wild leap, especially when a great many people find Civ6 aesthetically pleasing.

(I actually agree that Civ7 needs stronger art direction. Civ6's map is gorgeous, but the leaders are wildly inconsistent--not just in quality but in style. However, most of your complaints seem to be directed at the map and terrain where they make no sense.)
 

firsTraveler

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
22
Split luxuries/bonus from strategic resource scattering in the map maker. It's a pain to create a map where everyone has a chance at iron and horses while keeping luxuries feeling like precocious items. This should also be separately selectable with the in-game map generator (ie abundant strategic and scarce luxury check boxes).
 
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