Italian Football Wholesale

[Shevchenko]

Appeal Sentences have been handed out now...

Fiore and Lazio back to Serie A but with -19 and -7, Juve on B with -17, Milan on A with -8 and -30 last season but getting Champions League preliminary. Whoo!

 

[Gr3yL3gion]

I wonder how much moneys changed hands yesterday.

 

[Scratcher]

What a farce!

In my opinion these are massive reductions in the sentences. I really don't know what else to say.

Boo! Hiss!

 

[Rossiya]

Appeal Sentences have been handed out now...

Fiore and Lazio back to Serie A but with -19 and -7, Juve on B with -17, Milan on A with -8 and -30 last season but getting Champions League preliminary. Whoo!

they are very lucky.

 

[kryszcztov]

FIFA and now the Calcio. All this media hype... for this ? And this may not be the end of it...

Astonishing year for...

ITALY

 

[MCdread]

I wonder if the people that are complaining have in ways studied the case, the evidence, read the sentence and grasped to a reasonable point the full measure of what's going on? In that case could they objectively point out on where has the court gone wrong and why, and what punishments would have been fairer given the nature of the perpetrated actions?

It seems to me that everyone is jumping on the bandwaggon but no one knows much about the case other than Luciano Moggi doing some nasty stuff. How do you know when a penalty would have been fair, come short or gone too far?

Otoh, and if it is clear that Juventus and especially Milan had their penalties reduced, let's consider the case of Fiorentina. Before they were in Serie B with 11 points deducted IIRC. That would have given them a chance to be back in A in 2007/08. Now they are in A with 19 points less. This will make it very hard to escape relegation and avoid being in B in 2007/08. I don't think this is a much reduced sentence...

 

[Dell19]

Its the variance in the sentences that is the problem. If they deserved them in the first place why have they been significantly reduced, bearing in mind that three of the clubs are planning to appeal again.

 

[ulsterman88]

Hello everyone i only fouund this section of the forum today, how managed to miss it i will never no
The points deductions are playing into the hands of Roma!!
Roma for the title!! I heard just now that Inter got the 05/06 title but who got the 04/05 title?

 

[Inter4]

I wonder if the people that are complaining have in ways studied the case, the evidence, read the sentence and grasped to a reasonable point the full measure of what's going on? In that case could they objectively point out on where has the court gone wrong and why, and what punishments would have been fairer given the nature of the perpetrated actions?

It seems to me that everyone is jumping on the bandwaggon but no one knows much about the case other than Luciano Moggi doing some nasty stuff. How do you know when a penalty would have been fair, come short or gone too far?

Otoh, and if it is clear that Juventus and especially Milan had their penalties reduced, let's consider the case of Fiorentina. Before they were in Serie B with 11 points deducted IIRC. That would have given them a chance to be back in A in 2007/08. Now they are in A with 19 points less. This will make it very hard to escape relegation and avoid being in B in 2007/08. I don't think this is a much reduced sentence...

B., you have apoint, but if you've followed closely the Serie A in thast 10 years, you KNOW that these ''sentences'' are not fair at all. I would've sent Juve to Serie D and AC Milan to Serie B. These sentences were made according to the type of proof (only recorded cell-phone coversations) that were held against the team.. and I'm sure they were not enough to punish them for what they've done in the past seasons and that's why these sentences are so light. What I know is this: justice hasn't been made, money prevailed. What kind of Serie A would've been with only Inter and Roma in it.. and then a bunch of mid-table temas following them. not interesting at all. Better to have at least Fiorentina, Lazio and AC in it.

Inter is now the 2005/2006 Campione D'Italia, but I consider it the 1997/1998 Scudetto Juve took away from us..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBGR4VjE99Q&search=ronaldo

Now I want the 2001/2001 Scudetto that belongs to us, which we will get back next season. ( I am aware that Inter should've beaten Lazio in the final match-day, but in the last match-days, referees were favoring Juve in their matches.. )

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Inter will never claim the Scudetto this year, as my beloved Reggina will will lead the table from start to finish.

FORZA REGGINA!

 

[Scratcher]

@ MC Dread, My understanding of the case is only from TV and newspaper reports. Admittedly, I have not made a point to deeply explore this issue. But, there again it wasn't my responsibilty to review the evidence and issue the punishments.

Now, if I understand correctly, the evidence was reviewed, for about three weeks, and the sentences were supposed to be released the day after the World Cup final. But, it took the best part of a week to discuss, review and issue the sentences.

This is what I can not understand. Why spend so long considering the sentences if you are not going to stand by your guns?

....and in my opinion, these are significant reductions in the sentences.

 

[MCdread]

I don't dispute the fact that some of the sentences were significantly alleviated, and that probably some of the individuals involved were responsible for much more wrong doping than what was proved or supported by material evidence. But the point is that the court can only judge with objective proof, it cannot look at a scandalous penalty that wasn't called 7 or 8 years ago and give a sentence based on that.
Obviously economic factors also play a part, not necessarily money being changed under the table, as it has been said, but because even the other clubs themselves know very well that it hurts their own finances to have several top clubs taken away from the major division. Or do you think that the minor clubs were happy to see the likes of Juventus, Milan, Lazio or Fiorentina demoted to Series B or C for several years, and being spoiled the income that playing those clubs generates?
Obviously the FIGC also knows that, and in that regard it is very likely that the sentences were pronounced with several other factors taken into consideration.

But on what accounts do we know that Juve on Serie C or D or B with 50 points deducted would have been the proper punishment? That's just an emotional perspective. The fact is that there would always be someone thinking it wasn't enough, because we all know what happened in this or that game, in this or that year...
And looking on the reduced sentences, though I believe and agree they were probably handed by thinking on several other factors: but it was an appeal; the clubs lawyers gave the court their judicial arguments. How can we, from the comfort of our computer chairs, say that those arguments didn't have judicial merit? They probably had some, because the sentence is public and has to be justified on something. Ultimately, a trial isn't an exact science and there's plenty of room for subjectivity.

Otoh, and if we're going to speculate, why don't we speculate on the fact that the prosecutor in charge is a former seat in the Inter Milan board of directors? It's as valid speculation as any other...

The point is that people are fuming all over the place, calling this a farce, insinuating corruption all over the trial, all based on prejudices, emotional affections, little information, feelings and personal considerations, while the people in charge of this case don't have that luxury.

 

[Scratcher]

While I'll admit to calling it a farce, I have not mentioned corruption, nor am I in any way biased (I cound't give a fig for the Italian football league, I never watch it). Also I personally have no opinion about the suitability of the original sentences.

What I fail to understand is why drastically change the sentences, especially after taking such a long time to consider and issue them. Maybe there are major issues they failed to consider, or are they easily pressured by the clubs? If the latter is the case, then why issue such strong sentences in the first place?

I still stand by my previous statement, it is a farce!

 

[Shevchenko]

B., you have apoint, but if you've followed closely the Serie A in thast 10 years, you KNOW that these ''sentences'' are not fair at all. I would've sent Juve to Serie D and AC Milan to Serie B. These sentences were made according to the type of proof (only recorded cell-phone coversations) that were held against the team.. and I'm sure they were not enough to punish them for what they've done in the past seasons and that's why these sentences are so light. What I know is this: justice hasn't been made, money prevailed. What kind of Serie A would've been with only Inter and Roma in it.. and then a bunch of mid-table temas following them. not interesting at all. Better to have at least Fiorentina, Lazio and AC in it.

Inter is now the 2005/2006 Campione D'Italia, but I consider it the 1997/1998 Scudetto Juve took away from us..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBGR4VjE99Q&search=ronaldo

Now I want the 2001/2001 Scudetto that belongs to us, which we will get back next season. ( I am aware that Inter should've beaten Lazio in the final match-day, but in the last match-days, referees were favoring Juve in their matches.. )

But do you think what according to what Inter gave on the pitch, did they deserve to win? Guess you were right at the end, this was Inters season...

You, Inter4, that like so much Berlusconi, you will be glad to read what he said: ’I am happy the title has been assigned to Inter, a title as they say for a career ...’

I agree Juve should have been sent to Serie D or so, but what did Milan really do? Do you recall any matches the referees favored Milan more than they normaly do to the big teams?

The real responsable was Juventus, what at least they court had in mind was to give the sentences a balance. If Juventus did most of it, then it should get the worst punishment of all.

People talk of justice, of not given justice, in reality there isn't any sentences that could be just to everyone. Inter was given the tittle under the law in the FIGC that states than when a title ir revocked it doesn't get assigned but when it hasn't been asigned then you can give it to another team. Is it just for teams like Parma, that wouldn't have entered the UEFA Cup, to play in it without having deserved it on the pitch.


McDread, I completely agree with you. All of us who weren't on the trial, who haven't heard the cell phone conversations, that didn't heard the lawyers explaining their teams, can we all have a say in this?

We cannot talk with absolute fairness and truth,but what else can we do? Just listen to the big people talking about their own opinions and holding ours?

 

[Urederra]

So, what does it mean?

Does Milan start the new season with -8 points instead of 0 points?

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

That is indeed what it means.

 

[Shevchenko]

Yes, UEFA is deciding on Wensday if allor Milan to play in CL or not.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Channel 4 is reporting that milan is making a push to get Ronaldinho. Frankly I do not see it happening. I would love if it did, I am not really a big milan fan, but I would love to have him in Serie A.

 

[Shevchenko]

The press say that the offer would be the money for the transfer of Shevchenko and Kaka(Milan would only try Ronaldinho if Kaka leaves) what could be over a 100 million euros.