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Iv been learning but seems odd..

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Aleenik, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. Aleenik

    Aleenik Deity

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    I have been reading a lot recently about Science cities, production cities, and what have you..usually I just make every city everything..cuz I use Windmills on all Hills and Workshops on all FlatLands(except Floodplain, I cottage all of those)..and river tiles I put a Watermill on...and also if I see a flatland and sometimes a hill with a forest, I make a lumbermill, it gives 1 coin more then a workshop..so its decently better..and u get to keep the forest:)


    So thats my general strategy..I tried to do a science city and all..but
    At least playing on Rhyes and Fall MOD..on Earth Map..it seems Its best to just do what I normally do..make every city everything...and do what I usually do...I think this is due to the fact of close cities and many of em..and the abundence of resources..so should I do this or somehow try to individualize cities...or just make every city everything except for Egypt and such which will be cottage centers

    Mind You Im talking about Modern Times..So I use State Property and Environmentalism to help out my Watermills Workshops and Windmills
     
  2. negZero

    negZero Emperor

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    I would love to know how you can run State Property and Environmentalism at the same time.
     
  3. Aleenik

    Aleenik Deity

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    I dont..I used Environmentalism for a time but recently switched to State Property becuz it benifits me more..I was just saying those are things I was using to help my improvements
     
  4. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    see, i am in your boat. hopefully someone posts with content we can find helpful. I normally, as i said try to go

    Troop
    Barrack
    Troop
    Troop
    Library
    Troop
    Market
    Troop
    Troop
    University
    Troop


    thus, all my cities are everything. I am on monarch. I think they are saying that they prefer to build all troops with one exception.

    They build all science buildings in one city, commerce buildings in another, etc etc - and i have yet to figure out why, other than to have a lot of troops - could someone explain to me the benefit of using certain cities focused on science or commerce etc, in opposition to making all the buildings? i suppose the difference, is the number of troops you wind up building.
     
  5. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Superconductor Moderator

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    I usually build enough early military to fend off a serious attack, then I spam commerce and science/production buildings in all of my cities. I can usually keep up tech-wise or even have a tech lead through most of the game and by the time I make it to Communism I have a killer economy. Then I max out on troops and beat the hell out of everybody. :lol:

    Since I've been playing on Noble, though, I have tried the specialist cities thing with mixed results.

    One thing about a city with everything, it doesn't hurt your economy/production so bad if you lose one. Although the loss of any wonders is a bit of a pain...

    Of course you guys on Monarch make me look like an amateur, so YMMV.
     
  6. NovaDream

    NovaDream Chieftain

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    I guess the short answer would be to maximize the potential of each city. A production city would benefit more from farms on its grasslands and not cottages, as this would allow you to work more mines and produce more hammers. A bank or library would not be necessary in a city like that, that doesn't produce gold or beakers.
    And a city that does produce gold and beakers, would be more suited to building these buildings, rather than wasted turns and time producing troops.

    I play prince and monarch, and specialize to an extent. It's not completely hard and fast with me, and I usually only strictly specialize in my first couple of cities. Then the rest start being land and resource grabs, and hybrid cities.
     
  7. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    i never place myself above you for being on a lower difficulty than me, i only win about half the time :)

    its best to think about what tile improvements can give you the MOST benefit - then what buildings you need to exploit it. like if you have a lot of high commerce in a city, and the financial trait, you really should build: Market - Grocer - Bank ASAP. Likewise, if your city has lots of hammers and little food, you might think about "ways into food" which can come from settling it one space over, to building different tile improvements (like in the windmill or mine threads) and those hammers can make military beasts fast.

    I am still learning myself, and threads by SirSnuggles, Wolfshanze and r_rolo have been very helpful to me. I have learned every time your ready to settle a city, do a little work first: Is it just a city, or do these tiles have promise? Before i build it, do i know what tile improvements will make it good? If i move it over, what kind of a city is it? When i settle, i think about what kind of a city my tile improvements and buildings can produce the most/best of. i always build theatres on culture lines but never next to my capital for example.

    but over the course of my games (which tend to max out the tech tree), i tend to build almost every building in all my cities with very few exceptions.
     
  8. GooglyBoogly

    GooglyBoogly Freakamongus

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    The national wonders and great people (both settled and scotland yard/academy/miliatary academy) all encourage you to specialise the city you build/settle them in. This pretty much forces you to have at least one Miliatary city, gold city, science city, GP city, and perhaps espionage as well. If these cities are not specialised you are only hurting your civ.
     
  9. Og The Caveman

    Og The Caveman Chieftain

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    Yep. The mantra people keep saying here in the forums, is "City specialization is the key to unlock the higher levels of difficulty."

    When I learned how to build a Specialist Economy, I made a habit of establishing basically three types of cities: Gold, Science and Prod. I run Bureaucracy and have my capitol cottaged and farmed to gain gold and to support merchants. My capitol would then produce only gold neeeded for upgrades. My grassland-floodplains-riverside city is farmed and has a ton of scientists. The other cities produce troops. One downside of this strategy is that my capitol has usually the highest amount of hammers so every now and then I would find myself producing macemen in my capitol instead of gold..
     
  10. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    Googly, i would like to learn a bit so let me elaborate. You said the national wonders all encourage you to specialize. So, lets say i make a library / academy / university in one city, and we will call it the science city. then i put a market, grocer and settle a great merchant in my Gold city.

    How do i hurt myself by putting... a library in my gold city and a market in my science city? Are you saying it causes the city with the market to focus less on science - or do you mean by building the market there, i am building less units? I know i am fail. Thats why im asking :)
     
  11. Jerrymander

    Jerrymander Epistemologist

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    thadian: The crux of a specialist economy is that you don't use the slider to control one output of something, such as science. Science output could be controlled by Specialists. Your Gold cities, however, could be cottaged, and therefore use the slider to make gold.

    Well, at least that's how I see it. By placing a Market in your science city, the return for hammers put in is very low. The same is true for a library in a gold city - but libraries are really cheap buildings.
     
  12. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    i get it a little more now, your looking at the overall hammer output into each area seperately. that makes more sense.
     
  13. EmperorFool

    EmperorFool Deity

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    There is one single factor that underlies all of the decisions about specialization, and it's described by the economic principle of "guns vs. butter": every choice you make to do X means you are not doing Y.

    If you are building a Library, you are not building a Forge or Barracks or Maceman. If you maximize :hammers:, you are minimizing :commerce: (which becomes :science: and :gold:).

    Certainly, every building benefits every city by itself, but the :hammers: used to build it were not used to build something else. And herein lies the rub. If you make every city a hybrid, every city will need every building to maximize :science:, :gold:, and units.

    But if you specialize your cities, some cities won't need :science: and :gold: multiplying buildings, and some can forgo Forges and Factories (though eventually you'll run out of buildings to build even in your most :hammers: poor cities and end up building them in the late game). By not building these buildings, you free up :hammers: to build more troops. And more troops bring safety and expansion.

    Read the strategy article on city specialization. It is pretty clear and presents some good examples. Once you start doing it, you'll find that you can plan out where to build your cities better as a previous poster explained. I can typically tell what type of city a site will support. The trick is adjusting your plans as the AIs swoop in and block city sites. It sometimes pays to expand quickly early, even at the cost of slower research, to secure the best land and resources around your capital.
     
  14. Supr49er

    Supr49er 2011 Thunderfall Cup

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    Build your select targeted wonders there then.
     
  15. Og The Caveman

    Og The Caveman Chieftain

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    That's what I do, but instead of building wonders/troops I should be building gold, which I desperately need for upgrading my troops...:cry:
     
  16. Nestorius

    Nestorius Prince

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    Learn how to specialize so you can learn how to not specialize so much.
    Learn to NOT build Wonders so that you then can learn how to build Wonders.
     
  17. thadian

    thadian Kami of Awakened Dreamers

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    learn what you DONT need to figure out what your needs are - like that way of putting it.
     
  18. coffeeholic

    coffeeholic Chieftain

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    good word young Grasshoppa

    I usually use my capital as a production city running B. One great person farm that has lots of food, one commerce city (if not capital) and possibly a second production city.

    The rest are just plane jane cities that are mixed. I don't specialize every city by any means but 2 or 3 cities focused can give more total that those 3 running hybrid (mixed)

    AJK
     
  19. Retrospect

    Retrospect Warlord

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    I have pretty much just started to figure out city specialization (after playing civ4 from the release, oh and civ1,2,3) But your explanation of it here is the most clear and simple way of describing it and its benefits that i have read so far! I now clearly understand why I am specializing now!

    Thanks :goodjob:
     
  20. GooglyBoogly

    GooglyBoogly Freakamongus

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    Once you have as many of the the library/monastary/university/observatory/laboratory/Oxford/Academy as your tech will allow in your science city, and you have no need for additional happiness/healthiness, nor do you have a pressing need for troops/ships (say you are in the middle of a war), and you have a forge, and there are no non-combat uinits (missionaries, workers/settlers, corp execs) that you need - Then by all means get those commerce buildings. It is not so much that you shouldn't get every building in every city - often by the end of the game, some cities (especially cottage heavy ones) will probably do so, but specialising you build order, as to get maximum leverage as soon as possible is the key. Especially when specialists/settled great people are considered.
     

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