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I've taken the continent...now what?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Pinstar, Oct 10, 2006.

  1. Pinstar

    Pinstar Ringtailed Regent

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
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    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I tend to play more of a peacemonger than a warmonger in general style, however there is something to be said for owning your own continent. My most recent game showed me a flaw in my strategy. I was on a continent with Shaka and Napolean. I was playing as the ottomans.

    Right around the time I get my Janissarys, Napolean goes on the war path against Shaka, so I mass produce my UU and wipe Napolean out. After rebuilding and upgrading my army, I mass my troops against Shaka, taking him out.

    I now have the larger of the two continents all to myself.

    Mansa Musa, Churchill, Alexander and Tokigowa (sp) are all on the other landmass. Each are very well established and a bit too strong for me to take militarily. No matter, I tend to stop being a warmonger once I own the continent. I've just never taken a continent this big before.

    To my surprise, Mansa Musa starts cranking out spaceship parts. I hurry to catch up but he's ahead of me in tech.

    Despite me having 1000 more points than him and about 1.5 times more cities, he beat me to a space race victory.


    The point of this post is so I can ask this question: Once you own a whole continent of cities, what is the best way to make them work for you if you arent' going on the war path?
     
  2. ElJojo

    ElJojo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    72
    It depends of what happens on the other continent. You may use diplomacy, attrition wars and spies. Every step of the space race is written on the log.

    So you see that mansa completed apollo program you should start thinking of slowing him down. By bribing an other civ on his continent to attack mansa.
    By blowing his production with spies if you have the budget.

    By attacking him yourself : even if you know there's no chance of conquering him. Land some pillaging troops or some defensive troops and distract him. Even if your small force will be crushed, there's a chance that mansa will change his production to build units and send them to you. Be prepared on your continent, it should be easy to repel him.

    The main problem is also your own development. If you took a whole continent but can't afford to pay for it that's a mistake. Normaly if you own a whole continent and mansa is just a civ among other on his continent you should be able to outtech and outproduce him. Maybe all the wars you've waged have crippled your economy and science ? Maybe you started them too late ?

    If you decide to expand you should have s atrategy to recover after and may be it is what you were lacking. Hope that helps.
     
  3. Rast

    Rast Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    125
    The (usually) easiest way to slow down Mansa short of taking him out is to pillage his cottages.

    Even if you know you have no chance of taking him out, land a few stacks anyway and go a merry rampage until they're all dead. Get some other civs to declare on him and help you out as well.
     
  4. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
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    It happens often that, once a war starts on a continent, all civs on this continent start slowing down in tech :
    working mines doesn't provide commerce
    +
    war weariness
    +
    whipping
    +
    no more trades
    +
    no more trade routes
    +
    pillaged cottages

    You can only hope to catch up if you start working cottages like crazy, switch to emancipation to grow them quick or us a helluvah lot of scientists
    +
    trade with the other continent (you need to find them + free religion for not too bad relations)
    +
    try to slow them down (a war does them the same it did to you)
     
  5. Pogel

    Pogel Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2006
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    134
    You aim should be to cripple Mansa. Start by closing off trade - I suspect you have a lot of cities compared to him, in which case those trade routes will be helping him more than you. Kill your resource trades with him in favour of trades with other civs. If any of the other AI are up for it then try to bribe war or trade sanctions.

    Next, if you have the cash and can build spies, use them to systematically kill off his happiness & health resources - you want to send his big cities into freefall and kill their production.

    From there you've got a couple of options. The simplest would be to biology-farm your own continent for a big population boost and build the UN for a back-door diplomtic win. Alternatively you could combine that with build up a conquest fleet to raze coastal cities - you may even net yourself a vassal to help with a domination win.
     
  6. Stolen Rutters

    Stolen Rutters Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2006
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    Location:
    Michigan
    Yes. Don't open borders with the largest tech leader on the other continent! You are his most profitable source of trade routes. You can singlehandedly hand him the equivalent of +3 to +12 (or more!) commerce per turn PER CITY that he owns (and he techs much faster than you on the higher levels)! All his other trade routes will be short, same continent routes (those lower commerce ones). Only keep open borders with AI opponents who are behind in tech and they won't be able to beat you as easily. Open borders can be a weapon just like other methods of diplomacy. Even better, get his neighbors at war with him and almost all his trade routes end up internal (even deeper loss of income there).

    Be careful who you allow to profit from open borders with you. You are frequently giving away more commerce than you gain, especially if you are bigger then they are and the tech level gives them more than one trade route per city. You know how much you benefit from the Open border. Just imagine what the AI is getting out of it.
     
  7. Pinstar

    Pinstar Ringtailed Regent

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    Apr 13, 2004
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    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I tried for a diplomatic win. I was about 70 votes short of a backdoor win. Despite having sky high relations with me, Churchill (the 3rd largest civ) kept voting for mansa. I couldn't get him to cut off trade or declare war on mansa either. The remaining two civs, Alexander and Tokigowa, were both cowed warmongers. Alex was a vassal of Churchill. Both had huge "You declared war on our friend" and "You traded with our worst enemy" at -3 or 4 each, so they wouldn't do anything with me.

    I did have the economy to crank out some spies, I should have done that. Thanks for the tips guys.
     
  8. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
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    6,489
    Workers. 2-3 workers per city. You want EVERY tile improved, preferably half of them cottages.

    You should improve the land as aggressively as you conquered it.
     
  9. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,005
    I found myself in exactly the same situation (conquered a continent, moved ahead on points, but behind in the space race) in the game I am playing now.

    Elizabeth is on the other continent with Aztecs, Russians and Romans. Elizabeth got to the Apollo Program way ahead of the others and started cranking out SS Casings.

    I was moving ahead on points (as I have way more cities than any other single race), but was behind in tech.

    I started building up my Navy, getting the right techs for Infantry, Marines, Tanks etc. and Transported a massive army into Russian terretory, right next to Elizabeth. Then, I attacked Elizabeth and within about 10 turns had taken (and destroyed) 2 of her 7 Cities. Needless to say, she is fighting back, but I haven't seen any SS stuff produced from her lately. I continue to pump out units on my Continent and ship them across in transports having totally won the sea war.

    There are about 43 turns to go, and I think the threat from Elizabeth is done. Others may accelerate in the Space Race, but I have enough of an army to pounce on them also. Time will tell, but I think I'm set for a points victory.

    Cheers.
     
  10. mice

    mice Moose

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    I played a space race game recently where I stopped short of conquering the whole continent because Mansa was jumping ahead on the other continent.In the time frame I didnt think that I could develop those new citites fast enough to warant taking them, with the related short term tech-slowdown of ongoing war. When I went through to win, I looked at which cities really got me that victory. Some of the ones I had conquered didint contribute much to the victory.

    My point being if you have 8 or 9 good cities, commerce and prod, you dont need to keep conquering. Your continent nighbors are crippled,you have a core of good cities, that's enough. Then apply the clever trade strats already given
     
  11. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Jun 11, 2006
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    You should burn his, and his friends' happy resources. Then go for the health/farms, but don't bother with their strategic resources. They are usually gaurded and miserable starving people don't train troops very fast.
     
  12. mice

    mice Moose

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    I read somewhere that an AI when atacked switches completely from SS parts to military builds. It doesn't do a bit of each like a human can.
     
  13. automator

    automator King

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    Mice is right. Go on the attack. It's the single best thing you can do to hurt a spaceship building AI. I've been able to go from being without an Apollo Project while an AI had finished all but three pieces to winning, just by attacking.

    Since Mansa's on a different continent, amass a force. Look for a beach head, maybe even one with his only source of aluminum. Attack city in one turn (bombard defenses to zero and use a whole lot of marines to take the city). Keep the city. Fortify city garrison promoted Mech Inf and put some fighters on patrol. Build another force and take another beachhead. Continue. Once you've reached tech and spaceship parity with him, sue for peace, maybe even for a big chunk of gpt.

    Wioneo is right about burning resources. Using spies is a great way to slow down his spaceship progress (perhaps as you build your invasion force?). But destroying aluminum/copper/production is expensive, and since these tiles will often be gaurded, has a low chance of success. But luxury and food resources are almost never guarded. Make sure you've got a bunch of money and send four spies over on submarines. Let them run around destroying every one of those resources. Then start cutting off irrigation lines. Soon enough, Mansa will have a bunch of large, but withering, starving and unhappy cities!
     
  14. culdeus

    culdeus Emperor

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    Aircraft carriers + pillage happy faces = pissed off AI

    Hitting his resources kills whatever he has to trade to other civs with also.

    See if you can unload gunships in a neighbor civ and let them pillage. 4MP gunships can clear out a cities cottages in a hurry.
     
  15. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Absolutely. Remember, if you can drive down the population of those civs who will vote against you in the UN, then the value of your own population increases. Grow your pop. at the same time as decimating your opponents', and the backdoor diplomatic victory is within reach. If you're behind on tech, lacking in production/military power and have conquered your whole continent (which is often the case if you've spent hundreds/thousands of years at war with your neighbours) this is possibly the easiest way to get a win.

    Two things to bear in mind, though:

    (i) watch out for counter attacks and keep patrolling the seas - even a couple of pillaging enemy units at large in your empire can be a real pain in the arse.

    (ii) cripple your opponents one by one; the pillage/spy/bomb approach is best used to target individual cities - first cut off the health/happiness resources for the whole empire, then go after one city at a time (start with the biggest), destroying all of the farms and the grassland towns (you can actually ignore the non-grassland towns, since without food he won't be able to work them). Also, if you've got naval superiority, then park your ships on that city's sea resources for added effect.

    If you pull it off, your enemy's population, production and profits will plummet :). Really big cities can end up losing 1 pop every turn for quite a while - devastating, since there's no time for him to build the cities back up again.
     
  16. Wlauzon

    Wlauzon Prince

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    That is one of the fun tactics. In one game I had a lone city on the other civs continent. Kept airlifting tons of stuff in, including about 25 gunships.

    When I finally made him mad enough to declare war, I just put all the gunships on auto and they were pillaging 10-20 square per turn.

    Of course, if you are sure you will take the cities anyway and want to keep them, you are hurting yourself by destroying stuff.
     
  17. Ephebe22

    Ephebe22 Chieftain

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    The airlift option is a huge tactical advantage over the cpu. I like to send in a big wave of offensive units in escorted transports, then airlift the defensive units as I go. That way I don't have a lot of tanks sitting around defending cities, which they're crap at, when they could be on the offensive. It makes the decision to retain rather than raze a city a little easier. Ideally, I'd send in a wave of defenders with my attacking force, but somehow I never manage to plan it that well. Airlifting prevents my laziness from costing me too much.
     
  18. JimT

    JimT Warlord

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    :goodjob:
    Your laziness does your credit. never really thought of doing it that way. You start your war as soon as you get your offensive units and don't have to hang around waiting for your defensive troops. You get your war started earlier (and lets face it in this game earlier is better) then your defense troops are all ready and fresh to meet the enemy. :) :) :)

    Thank you, thank you and thank you again! If I hadn't already declared war on Alexander and Capac then I would be trying this my self when I got home :(
     
  19. manu-fan

    manu-fan Emperor

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    Just an update.

    It all went to plan.

    I eliminated Elizabeth. Then, with about 20 turns left, it looked like Montezuma was hard at the Space race, so I delcared war on him and captured a couple of cities and made him focus on war. I easily won a time victory.

    Cheers.
     

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