Japan - Hojo Tokimune Thread

Sry to bump this one, but do we know for sure how Japan's Meiji Restoration works. Tooltip says that you get "additional" standard adjacency bonus for each district, but it might be misleading. My guess is that it just replaces minor bonus with standard, so they do not stack. In other words, if you have 3 adjacent districts, all will get +2 (and not +3) adjacency instead of +1. But I might be wrong.

So, do we have any proof from some let's play on this?
 
Here is a lets play of Japan, I am just starting the second video and not seen any adjacency yet. There are more videos ahead though you could maybe scan through to find out. I'de also be interested, though I just assumed it was double.
 
It replaces the minor district next to district bonus that for every one else is 1 for every two districts (rounded down!) to +1 for every district, which is a bit better than twice as much because it never is rounded down.
 
Here is a lets play of Japan, I am just starting the second video and not seen any adjacency yet. There are more videos ahead though you could maybe scan through to find out. I'de also be interested, though I just assumed it was double.

I quickly checked it, it is not clear from that, since he doesn't have 3 districts next to each other.

It replaces the minor district next to district bonus that for every one else is 1 for every two districts (rounded down!) to +1 for every district, which is a bit better than twice as much because it never is rounded down.

Source? I think the same, but I was asking for confirmation.
 
The description of Japan Meiji restoration ability say it get an additional standard bonus so Japan adjancecy bonus should be 1.5 per adjacent districts.
 
The description of Japan Meiji restoration ability say it get an additional standard bonus so Japan adjancecy bonus should be 1.5 per adjacent districts.

Brazil Campus says it gets additional +1 science/jungle, but in all LP with Brazil, it never reached more than +6, when Marbozir had a campus surrounded by jungle it was +6, not +9.

I think Japan is the same, don't stack.
 
Brazil Campus says it gets additional +1 science/jungle, but in all LP with Brazil, it never reached more than +6, when Marbozir had a campus surrounded by jungle it was +6, not +9.

I think Japan is the same, don't stack.

That's very weird - but if anything, it's probably an easy fix. My guess is that they have it set to +1 in the code, but it only increases it to +1, not adds +1 entirely. The solution, then, is to trick the coding - put in +1.5 instead (if possible to put in decimal integers - I imagine it's possible, as they had to program the original +0.5 somehow), and it should provide the original +1 UA boost in addition to the regular +0.5 adjacency yield.
 
That's very weird - but if anything, it's probably an easy fix. My guess is that they have it set to +1 in the code, but it only increases it to +1, not adds +1 entirely. The solution, then, is to trick the coding - put in +1.5 instead (if possible to put in decimal integers - I imagine it's possible, as they had to program the original +0.5 somehow), and it should provide the original +1 UA boost in addition to the regular +0.5 adjacency yield.

I think it is even easier fix - they need to change text in tooltip :D Seriously, I'd be shocked if it was intended to stack. It would mean possible +9 from rainforest for Brazil, and +9 for districts for Japan. And Japan could build dozen district next to each other easily, so it would be an insane bonus. My money is on simple +1 bonus.
 
Brazil Campus says it gets additional +1 science/jungle, but in all LP with Brazil, it never reached more than +6, when Marbozir had a campus surrounded by jungle it was +6, not +9.

I think Japan is the same, don't stack.

That would make this ability almost negligible, wouldn't it? If that's actually the case they just went from number 1 interest for me to almost dead last. Like it's forcing you to build your cities tight or give up your bonus, rather than rewarding you :(
 
That would make this ability almost negligible, wouldn't it?

How is this negligible? It at least doubles adjacency bonuses, and in most cases it add even more. If there are 3 rainforest adjacent, you'd get +3 instead of +1. If there are 5, you'd get +5 instead of +2. Not to mention that there are civic cards which double adjacency bonuses.
 
How is this negligible? It at least doubles adjacency bonuses, and in most cases it add even more. If there are 3 rainforest adjacent, you'd get +3 instead of +1. If there are 5, you'd get +5 instead of +2. Not to mention that there are civic cards which double adjacency bonuses.

Isn't he saying it can only affect each district once?
 
The first building in a district provide only like +2 resources althougth the +1 great person point is probably as valuable or even more valuable then its resource yield.

So +6 (+12 with card) is very strong in the early game or even the whole game.
 
The first building in a district provide only like +2 resources althougth the +1 great person point is probably as valuable or even more valuable then its resource yield.

So +6 (+12 with card) is very strong in the early game or even the whole game.

I agree, but I think he is saying +6 vs the regular +5 a vanilla civ would get, not on top of it, because the bonus only occurred for one of the jungles on the district.
 
I agree, but I think he is saying +6 vs the regular +5 a vanilla civ would get, not on top of it, because the bonus only occurred for one of the jungles on the district.

Now I don't understand you. Vanilla civ gets +0.5 for any rainforest adjacent to Campus, Brazil gets +1. Vanilla can get +3 from rainforests if complete surrounded, Brazil can get +6. Question is if it is not +9, but I'd say definitely no, since it would be too much. And the difference between +0.5 and +1 is massive, as seen is 3 or 5 adjacent rainforests example (+1 vs +3, +2 vs +5). Also, Brazil, as well as Japan, gets it for many different districts, so it would seem like a really OP bonus to me if it worked like +1.5 for each district.
 
Do anybody know how stave church adjancey bonus work, do you still keep the normal holy district adjancey and get the bonus from stave church on top of it?
 
Now I don't understand you. Vanilla civ gets +0.5 for any rainforest adjacent to Campus, Brazil gets +1. Vanilla can get +3 from rainforests if complete surrounded, Brazil can get +6. Question is if it is not +9, but I'd say definitely no, since it would be too much. And the difference between +0.5 and +1 is massive, as seen is 3 or 5 adjacent rainforests example (+1 vs +3, +2 vs +5). Also, Brazil, as well as Japan, gets it for many different districts, so it would seem like a really OP bonus to me if it worked like +1.5 for each district.

Oh jeeze, sorry I misunderstood, I wasn't sure what the base values were. I thought his +6 and +9 were both directed at brazil, not brazil - japan respectively. Yes, linear vs an exponential increase for Japan. Exponential would be insane.
 
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I just went and checked Japan's First Look vid around the point where they present the Meiji Restoration bonus. As an example, they build the Holy Site district (immediately, probably for the sake of showing of the stats), and point to different locations for where it can be built. Normally, the Holy Site gets the following adjacency bonuses:

Minor bonus from adjacent districts and forests (+0.5 each)
Standard bonus from adjacent mountains (+1 each)
Major bonus from adjacent natural wonders (+2 each)

I'm assuming the city center is counting as a district, because it added up to the district adjacency bonus.

When choosing where to build the Holy Site, the first spot had forests and a mountain - the forests said "+1 for every two adjacent forests." This could mean that the coding doesn't register a 0.5 yield, but instead leaves a "null" value from the adjacent forest (and normally districts) until the amount of adjacent forests reaches an even value (2 giving +1, 4 giving +2, 6 giving +3, etc.), which if Meiji Restoration really doesn't add an additional +1 from adjacent districts but instead only buffs it up to +1 and leaves it at that, it could make things difficult to fix via tricking the coding.

Anywho, back to the topic - the presenter continues to move over a tile with a forest, the city center, and the theatre square, and it only shows "+2 from adjacent districts." Later, they move to a tile with 3 mountains, the city center, the theatre square, and another district (encampment?) and gave +3 for the districts.

According to the UA, and I quote from the current pre-release build: "Meiji Restoration - All districts receive and additional standard adjacency bonus for being adjacent to another district." This means Japan is supposed to get the +1 yield of a standard adjacency bonus in addition to the +0.5 yield of a minor adjacency bonus. The minor adjacency bonus, however, is calculated as +1 for every two districts, so that needs to be taken into account. The final bonus, then, should be calculated as follows: +1 per each individual district, along with a +1 for every two adjacent districts.

Put more simply, you should be getting these bonuses:

+1 for one adjacent district
+3 for two adjacent districts
+4 for three adjacent districts
+6 for four adjacent districts
+7 for five adjacent districts
+9 for six adjacent districts

This is a pretty big deal - you could potentially get insane boosts to your districts, potentially within reaching the medieval era! I understand that this might have deserved a nerf, but that's beside the point.

So what is the point, hm? The point is that the unique ability gives the wrong stats. It specifically says that you are supposed to get the standard adjacency bonus (+1 for every 1 adjacent) in addition to the minor adjacency bonus (+1 for every 2 adjacent). However, the video clearly shows the districts giving +0.5 for every district, or +1 for every two districts - a minor bonus, not the standard bonus, as stated in the build. The video itself is much less explicit, stating vague "bonuses" without going into detail.

However, since the pre-release build is meant to reflect the final product, that means that Japan is supposed to get an additional standard bonus, and not a minor bonus. I haven't seen any pre-release streams of Japan and the only Japan pre-release vids I can find is the one by Solar Gamer, and so far he hasn't built any districts adjacent to at least two others, so I can't tell if the additional standard bonus is implemented yet, but in any case, it is supposed to be there.

Edit: I'm gonna go and make a post in /r/civ about this issue. Whether or not it's a bug, or if calling the bonus standard instead of adjacent was a mistake on Firaxis's part, I'm not sure - but considering that some Firaxis employees are occasionally active on there, the issue might get their attention, and be addressed.
 
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I think it is just a bad description.... I think it is Supposed to be just "receives a standard adjacency bonus from districts"

(civ always has bad documentation, so its difficult to determine if something is a bug, or just bad text...usually its bad text though)
 
I think it is just a bad description.... I think it is Supposed to be just "receives a standard adjacency bonus from districts"

(civ always has bad documentation, so its difficult to determine if something is a bug, or just bad text...usually its bad text though)

I mean, I dunno...whereas Brazil's bonus is a bit more vague (only stating Rainforests giving +1 adjacency to Campus, Commerical Hubs, etc.), Japan's explicitly states that there is an additional standard adjacency bonus. Either Firaxis must have forgotten what a standard adjacency bonus is (and I really don't think they have), or they fully intend for the wording of the UA's text to be completely 100% true. That, or it could just be a bug.
 
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