1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Japan - Hojo Tokimune Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by nunor, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. SMcM

    SMcM Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2016
    Messages:
    1,194
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London, England
    No, far too long in the past. She obviously no where near ruled all of Japan, so that choice would be hard to justify. It'd be like Boudicca for Britain.
     
  2. bookman_

    bookman_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Swiss Confederation
    Oh yeah, I almost forgot about the samurai bow. It was for sure a very important weapon in their history, but :
    1) They used bows only mounted and not afoot, and the samurai we've seen in the screens are close combat warriors, not mounted archers.
    2) Although the bow remained a big part of samurai training and culture until.. well today, it almost ceased to be utilized on the battlefield after the first Mongolian invasion, where they realized that ritual duels do not work against a barbarian army, and also that the until-then-near-useless-sabers actually were a great weapon in melee against Mongolian light armor.
    2,5) So since bow and katanas were never used in the same eras, a melee and ranged samurai unit is not possible, even they are when we look at their history as one piece.

    I agree the Japanese land administration is something big, maybe something as you said, but for every food resource would work better ?
    For the LA maybe something like "kills get you Great Prophet Points (in medieval and classical era)" since he ended up as a Boudhia..bou..Buddhist saint after dying on the battlefield.
    I still think the the Typhoon would be a great Leader Unit.
     
  3. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,076
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm pretty sure the Samurai is this guy's UU. Hard to say what he will look like using just America as a template.

    Japan
    Leader Hojo Tokimune
    Historical Agenda Divine Wind - Dislike large militaries on other continents
    Civilization Ability Land of the Rising Sun - change governments anytime for free
    Leader Ability Can build the Samurai Unit, embarked enemies lose health in its territory and combat bonus in its territory
    Unique Unit Zero
    Unique Building Tea House
     
  4. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    14,129
    Not every leader is going to have a personal UU.
     
  5. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,076
    Location:
    Canada
    I think my point still stands that samurai could be his though. Hojo is a new name to me but it seems he was instrumental in the development of bushido and the samurai as a warrior caste.
     
  6. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    2,520
    Location:
    Grainvillage, Finland
    That seems extremely random to me, even though you'll probably explain it to me with the whole Mongolian invasion thing, it still feels completely random, annoying and... did I mention random? There you sit minding your own business with decent army and then some guy on the other side of the globe hates you for the simple fact you have what he considers a "large army"? Yeah... that certainly sounds fun and logical... you know... comparing to Teddy, who for some reason doesn't like wars on his continent. :crazyeye::p
     
  7. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,076
    Location:
    Canada
    :) He shouldn't like large militaries that have overrun other civilizations, but being separated by water would make that safer to do. Whether or not he should dislike large militaries that have threatened him in particular or just large militaries in general is a mystery to me too. His agenda should probably revolve around making the home islands of Japan unconquerable.
     
  8. Felis Renidens

    Felis Renidens Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    Messages:
    542
    Location:
    Israel
    I think that "hates large militaries" will work better as a "hidden agenda", like wanting to have the biggest navy. I'd say refusing to tribute demand might work, especially if he gets defensive bonuses. An isolationist with culture\religious focus and a strong defense might work. Unlike Teddy I think he shouldn't care what you are doing to other civs as long as you live him alone.
     
  9. Scaramanga

    Scaramanga Brickhead

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,076
    Location:
    Canada
    "Hates large militaries" would not work as a randomly assigned hidden agenda because Cleopatra's historical agenda is the opposite.

    Hojo's agenda could be feeling threatened by anyone with a stronger military and then getting massive defensive bonuses.
     
  10. JaeChunDaeSung

    JaeChunDaeSung Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Korea
    I for one, look forward to playing a Civ where Japan is not being led by any of the three conquerors of the Sengoku Jidai.

    For perspective, Oda Nobunaga only conquered about 1/3 of the country before he was betrayed, Toyotomi Hideyoshi technically ruled by being appointed as high of a rank as he could since he was a commoner with no ancestral ties to the imperial family, and never able to become shogun, and Tokugawa Ieyasu appointed his son as his immediate successor after winning the Battle of Sekigahara because he knew his time was short.

    In short, having a pre-modern, non Sengoku leader of Japan is an interesting prospect, as Hojo's greatest accomplishment was fending off two Mongol invasions.
     
  11. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2005
    Messages:
    2,027
    It's certainly interesting that they didn't focus on the Edo or Imperial periods. I was pleasantly surprised.

    I knew nothing about Hojo before civ6's announcement and I googled him. I intend to learn more now, though.
     
  12. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2010
    Messages:
    14,129
    Between the Mongol routs and introducing Zen Buddhism, I am curious to see what his leader bonuses are.
     
  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2016
    Messages:
    5,704
    Location:
    Terok Nor
    I'm pleasantly surprised to see Japan no longer depicted as an aggressive warmonger--a trait that certainly doesn't characterize the bulk of Japanese history. Like others, I had never heard of Hojo Tokimune before, but he sounds like an excellent choice. If, as it would seem, Japan has a strong religious and defensive focus, Japan is a good contender for my first game, despite the temptation of Qin Shi Huang's wonder rushing ability.
     
  14. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,617
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    I'm pleased to see a Kamakura period leader, but I kind of doubt Hojo will be any different in game terms than any other samurai warlord. It's hard to imagine two men more different in character than the real Tokugawa Ieyasu and Oda Nobunaga, but in Civ IV and Civ V they were functionally identical.

    Well, at least his avatar is prettier. :D
     
  15. JaeChunDaeSung

    JaeChunDaeSung Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2009
    Messages:
    302
    Location:
    Korea
    I too was tiring of the warmonger reputation Japan had with leaders that never even historically managed to fight outside wars. Nobunaga was said to have aspired to invade China, Hideyoshi tried by going through Korea and failed, and Ieyasu just closed the country after all was done. This way, I look forward to the prospect of a more defensive, spiritual/cultural Asian civ.

    Granted, internal wars plus the rise and fall of dynasties and empires have influenced many Asian cultures, it's the moments outside of those conflicts that intrigued me most.
     
  16. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2003
    Messages:
    25,842
    Location:
    Plymouth, MA
  17. Alex Khan

    Alex Khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Location:
    City-State of Bucharest
    whatever is leader, can't wait to play with samurai
     
  18. Loaf Warden

    Loaf Warden (no party affiliation)

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2001
    Messages:
    1,972
    Location:
    Alaska Grown, currently Outside
    Interesting point. Japan is usually depicted as a highly military civ, because we all know about the martial samurai culture ("Bushido" is almost as famous as "Chivalry"), and the two most famous phases of Japanese history are the Sengoku period and World War II. But World War II was an anomaly, for a great many nations, and the Sengoku period was a series of civil wars. Historically Japan hasn't really been a nation that carried war to other people. Toyotomi Hideyoshi actually did invade Korea, and from Meiji to Hirohito* they had an empire in various parts of the Pacific. But that's not really representative of what the Japanese as a people have mostly been up to down the centuries. I think Japan would be much better represented as a defensive/cultural civ than a warmongering one.

    *Yes, I know I've mixed regnal names and personal names in this sentence. Strictly speaking, it should have been "Mutsuhito to Hirohito" or "the Meiji Emperor to the Showa Emperor". Instead I've opted for the more common forms in each case.
     
  19. bookman_

    bookman_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Swiss Confederation
    If they did almost no external war, that's only because they never really stop civil wars for hundreds, if not thousands of years. But in Civ civil wars are not really a thing, a Civ is nothing if a united country, so the only way to represent their internal wars is to have them as a military civ.
     
  20. ezysquire

    ezysquire Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2010
    Messages:
    181
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Hojo is no Mr Miyagi, but not a bad choice. If not Miyagi I would've been keen on Meiji also
     

Share This Page