Japan

Funak

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Jul 15, 2013
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UA - Damaged units fight at full strength.

Fishing boats and Isles give Culture.


Never been a big fan of Japan, not really my cup of tea, but from what I've gathered this UA seems rather solid.

Unique Unit: Samurai - stronger longsword with a bonus in open ground and can attack twice.

I'm honestly not sure it needs 2 bonus promotions and a strengthbonus, seems like overdoing it. I would be fine with blitz and shock 1 if we scratch the bonus-strength.

Unique Building: Dojo - barracks that adds culture to horses and iron.

If the exp/turn for standing fortified in a city with a dojo has been dropped (which is great I personally hated rewarding passive play) this UB might need something to compensate.
 
UA - Damaged units fight at full strength.

Fishing boats and Isles give Culture.


Never been a big fan of Japan, not really my cup of tea, but from what I've gathered this UA seems rather solid.

Unique Unit: Samurai - stronger longsword with a bonus in open ground and can attack twice.

I'm honestly not sure it needs 2 bonus promotions and a strengthbonus, seems like overdoing it. I would be fine with blitz and shock 1 if we scratch the bonus-strength.

Unique Building: Dojo - barracks that adds culture to horses and iron.

If the exp/turn for standing fortified in a city with a dojo has been dropped (which is great I personally hated rewarding passive play) this UB might need something to compensate.

The additional culture on the dojo would mesh with their UA, and makes sense. There isn't any code for passive xp in the dll, so I think we can consider that removed.
G
 
Pretty much agreeing with what Funak said:

  • Keep the UA as is, it's good.
  • Drop the strength bonus from Samurai, the Bushido UA plus shock plus Blitz it quite good (let's keep the great generals II promo, though).
  • I like the bonus culture on the Dojo, it actually sounds quite solid since early cities will try to get iron or horses. If it needs a buff, I'd add something to city defence/health or a reduced unhappiness due to city strength
 
The Dojo, with extra XP and the culture from iron/horses, works really well for Japan, and is solid.

I also adjusted Japan's UA in the previous version – it now provides additional combat strength based on the unit's damage. In other words, instead of units fighting at full strength when injured, they actually exceed their 'normal' strength as they get damaged. I like the flavor of this, and it makes Japan a terrifying foe after a few rounds of attrition when in the middle of a war. Japan is very a strong war civ now.

G
 
Tbh, Japan is reset-happy because of UA.
You either end up with 5f2p2c atoll right from the start, which basically triples-doubles culture output at this stage, or with 1f tundra tiles due to tundra start bias.
 
Tbh, Japan is reset-happy because of UA.
You either end up with 5f2p2c atoll right from the start, which basically triples-doubles culture output at this stage, or with 1f tundra tiles due to tundra start bias.

That's pretty much how all terrain-specific civs work.
Also Japan does not have tundra start bias. They have Ocean start bias, that's it.
 
I was thinking that more of the sea civs should be able to embark at start onto coasts. Polynesia gets oceans at turn one right? Could japan and the others have coasts? (other things might have to happen other places to make this work with balance, but its an idea i find interesting)
 
I was thinking that more of the sea civs should be able to embark at start onto coasts. Polynesia gets oceans at turn one right? Could japan and the others have coasts? (other things might have to happen other places to make this work with balance, but its an idea i find interesting)

Embark is really early in the tree, if you feel the need to have it early on, rushing it isn't that horrible of a strategy.
That being said I was kinda sad when fishing was moved to a tier 2 tech instead of tier 1, I enjoyed researching fishing first just to give my scouts embarking. However that is a problem for all civs really, not limited to those that are coastal-based. It would make sense for Denmark however maybe, but that's just because their UA is based around embarking.
 
Yeah I agree about Denmark completely. Making it a widespread thing was a kinda crazy idea, but for Denmark it's actually a really good idea.
 
Eight Virtues of Bushido -

Loyalty: +15% CS inside Friendly Lands
Honor: +15% CS outside Friendly Lands
Respect: +15% CS vs (Melee & Gun) Units
Righteousness: +15% CS vs Wounded Units
Courage: +15% CS vs Fortified Units
Self Control: +15% CS when Defending
Sincerity: +25% Experience
Benevolence: +5 HP Healed in Adjacent Tiles

Honor and Loyalty are always on with a bit of foresight. They're the best parts of a Wonder (Himeji Castle) and a Reformation Belief (Crusader Spirit). What I'd like is the more specialized traits to actually be better than these more generalized boosts. Some suggestions:

Loyalty: +10% CS inside Friendly Lands
Honor: +10% CS outside Friendly Lands
They don't really need to be nerfed, but the specialized traits start getting out of hand otherwise.

Respect: +15% CS vs (Melee & Gun) Units
Stronger against the most prevalent unit type, but unlike Honor/Loyalty this doesn't help defensively against any type of bombardment.

Righteousness: +25% CS vs Wounded Units
Brings it on par with Charge, though without the open terrain bonus.

Courage: +15% CS when Attacking
AI Fortifying units is very rare. Attack bonus is a nice counterpart to Self Control. Unlike Respect it's effective against all unit types, but you lose the defense boost against melee units.

Self Control: +20% CS when Defending
Brings it closer to Survivalism or Armor Plating. Defense bonus is less useful than attack.

Sincerity: +50% Experience
25% is 1.25/1.00/0.50 XP for Attack/Defense/Bombarded. Not great, especially compared to any Quick Study Samurai you held onto. You're passing up unique promotions to get the default ones faster.

Benevolence: +10 HP Healed in Adjacent Tiles or let it apply to the unit itself.
Basically Medic I in every way or Medic I + II but only for other units.
 
The other problem I have with the promotion is that it "penalizes" building your melee units before Chivalry. So I end up building only Archers and Horsemen until I can get Samurai. I've never built a Warrior, Spearman, or Swordsman as Japan.

Can anyone think of a way that allows units built earlier to benefit from the promotion? Yes, this is an issue for Heroic Epic and the Ikanda as well, and I feel the same way about those.
 
The other problem I have with the promotion is that it "penalizes" building your melee units before Chivalry. So I end up building only Archers and Horsemen until I can get Samurai. I've never built a Warrior, Spearman, or Swordsman as Japan.

Can anyone think of a way that allows units built earlier to benefit from the promotion? Yes, this is an issue for Heroic Epic and the Ikanda as well, and I feel the same way about those.

I usually throw away my melee-units while playing as Japan, making suicidal attack and heroic holds, so I really don't have this problem.
 
i really dislike the rng of the UA, damaged units hitting harder and the ub seems pretty good.

keeping the bushido combat bonus, remove the atoll and boat bonus and instead add another bonus that requires less on the starting location.

maybe the ua affecting coastal tiles or giving bonuses to coastal cities, but that seems really boring.
 
yes some starts are so good with japan ( atoll + 1/2 sea resources + 1 fish ) and some are super disappointing . A flat bonus would be more balanced but plain boring too. I don't know how to solve this micro issue ;)
 
I like the fact that sea-resources add flavor towards Japan, but I'm kinda with you here, I've seen triple atoll starts (not while actually playing Japan, naturally) and they would probably just be snowball heaven.

Maybe a flat bonus in all coastal cities?
 
maybe japan starts being able to see fish, and coastal cities spawn a fish resource nearby?, but i think i remember implementing that is really complicated.
 
Maybe they could see fish and get a Fishing Boat whenever a city is founded in addition to the current UA.
 
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