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JAR02, Always War Emperor

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by jarred!, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    What did you end up doing with the Leader?

    Why did you raze Tabriz vs. capturing it a few turns later (after growth)?

    How do you get the little grid lines on the minimap?
     
  2. CKS

    CKS Chieftain

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    The leader built the FP.
     
  3. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Derp, I missed that. So much for reading the turnlog carefully! :smoke:
     
  4. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    Just (mis)spent a happy quarter-hour doing a site search, and Suede's gridded mini-map is possibly one of the files attached to the first post of this thread:

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...cations-better-with-9x5-mini-map-grid.112716/

    (Can't tell for sure, because the image-links are all broken)

    Not so worried about Tabriz getting demolished. If/when we re-Settle that peninsula, I'd favour founding New Tabriz on the (Plains-)Forest 1SW of the ruins. That way, we'd get 2 FPT more from that Plains-tile (after Monarchy), and also have access to the 2FPT from the Grassland where Tabriz used to be: adding in the Game-Forest, it should easily get to Pop6 just from its land-tiles, and Pop12 with a Harbour. It would also be (marginally) closer to Tenoch (reduces corruption, shortens the shipping-route).

    Also, if the Inca-rSword goes ahead and attack Vilcas on the IBT, despite the Walls and the units garrisoned there, then I would take that as a sign that the town will almost certainly fall to the rest of their stack (A=2 units can't safely attack Swords on a Mountain). So maybe we should then consider abandoning it, and pulling our units back to the Mountain where the vArcher is? (What's the flip-risk in Vilcas, BTW? We've held it for more than 10 T now, but it would seriously suck to lose our stack...!)

    Even if Vilcas could be held, there's possibly still a good argument for abandoning it later (assuming that there is freshwater somewhere on our Continent!): if we re-Settle New Vilcas on the Incense-Hill, it would then be able to act as an irrigation-conduit both for the southern areas, and also for the Tabriz-promontory. (We'd need a second conduit-town on the Hills 1S of the Incan Wines, too...)
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  5. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Ooh, good find. I'm going to add that to my civ installation :D

    Not worried, just curious about the rationale behind razing vs. capture :)

    Good thoughts re: Vilcas. I'll check on that before I start my turnset (assuming no one else *yoinks* the save and plays before Sunday -- CKS would be the natural "swap" player since jarred! is busy)
     
  6. CKS

    CKS Chieftain

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    This isn't a good weekend for me to play, so I won't be grabbing it.
     
  7. SuedecivIII

    SuedecivIII Chieftain

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    In regards to razing vs capturing, I figured if I waited for it to grow they'd just slave another spearman when I walked up. I guess I could have parked our units next to the city. But I doubt we would have been able to hold it against the incans. They'd been showing a couple swords, although not as many as now have near Vilcas

    Vilcas is safe militarily. It has walls, it's on a hill, plus the fortification bonus. Our Elite chariot is actually 64% odds of winning combat on defense before factoring in defensive bombard. We have half a dozen units in the city, and we have a spear next to the city that's not visible in the screenshot.

    It should be fine for culture flipping too. It's about as close to our capitol as it is to theirs. No tiles from BFC within enemy borders. Resistance is over. We have military units inside. And their closest city is like 6+ tiles away.

    The grid lines are an art file modification. We use it in multiplayer for communicating location. Here's a CFC thread on it.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...cations-better-with-9x5-mini-map-grid.112716/
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  8. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    @Elephantium will you be able to play in the next few days?
     
  9. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Yes, I'm planning to play tomorrow. If there's anything you'd like to see happen during my set, now's the time to speak up :)
     
  10. Dwarven Zerker

    Dwarven Zerker Just one more turn Honey!

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    /DeLurk: Nuke the Inca's from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. :D

    /ReLurk
     
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  11. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Pre-turn: MM, Monarchy due in 12.

    IBT: Incan Sword suicides on our eChariot.

    130 BC: Cat pings rSword on hill (!)
    Horseman clears barb village S of Edo
    Horseman kills one of the barb horses near Tzin

    At Vilcas:
    Move spear to N mountain
    Move archer to W mountain

    IBT:

    Incan Sword kills rSpear easily
    2/3 Incan Sword dies vs. eArcher (no help from def bombard)
    Barbs almost all suicide on our rSpears, promoting one to vet and one to elite!

    Inca complets Hanging Gardens.

    110 BC:

    2 Horsemen empty a barb village near Tzin.
    Third Horse kills the remaining Barb Horse.
    I spacebar the Settler to avoid losing it in 2 turns if the Incans take the mountain next to its current position

    IBT:

    Incas attack 2-archer mountain
    1 Sword dies
    1 Archer dies
    1 Sword kills wounded Archer
    Peak holds...for now...

    4 Mongol Horsemen appear N-NE of Vilcas. Gulp...

    90 BC:

    Horse kills Sword, promotes
    Move slave worker stack away from Vilcas to avoid losing them on the IBT
    Horseman kills Mongol Archer NE of Vilcas

    IBT:

    Incan Archer takes the mountain W of Vilcas, killing our wounded Archer.
    2 Mongol Horses attack a Spear on his way to Vilcas; one retreats, the second one wins.

    70 BC:

    our vHorse dies to rHorse :wallbash:
    our vHorse kills 3/4 Horse
    our Warrior dies to 2/3 Archer :(
    our 4/5 eHorse narrowly kills 2/3 Horse. Whew!
    eArcher kills enemy Archer
    vHorse kills 2/4 Horse
    eChariot kills 1/4 Horse

    IBT: More forces move next to Vilcas...

    50 BC:

    vHorse runs down wounded Mongol horse
    Cat misses Spear
    Cat pings Mongol Archer
    Horse runs down Archer

    4 Swords can attack...

    IBT:

    Nothing attacks, but a LOT of Incans move next to Vilcas. Looks like they're slowly trying to bypass it -- mountain path down to Tzin.

    30 BC:

    Zzz...cats ping Incan units, that's it.

    IBT:

    Incans keep moving.

    10 BC:

    Our eHorse kills Mongol Horse next to Vilcas.
    Cats redline Incan Sword on a hill

    IBT:

    Incans are tempted into attacking...Sword suicides on Spear, promoting him.
    Mongols want peace :lol:

    10 AD:

    Cat pings Incan Archer
    Anti-Barb patrol discovers Mongol settler pair 3-S of Edo
    eHorse kills Mongol Archer on plains tile
    Horsemen kill wounded Incan Spear and Sword on hills 2-SW of Vilcas

    IBT:

    Mongol settler pair moves!

    30 AD:

    Horse retreats from Settler pair
    Malinalco FINALLY settled S of Tzin

    Action S of Vilcas:
    eArcher kills Archer
    2 cats ping Swords
    Sword kills Sword
    eChariot narrowly dies to Archer :wallbash:
    eHorse finishes off the Archer
    Horse kills Sword, promotes

    Bloody turn :(

    IBT:

    Zzz...

    50 AD, T10:

    1 cat misses, 1 cat pings
    Horse retreats
    Horse kills 2/3 Sword

    Tula built E of Malinalco




     

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  12. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    I've got it. Three things I'd like talked about:
    First, our research and when to revolt. After Monarchy comes in, we're going Writing->MM? We'll probably want lit soon as well since (most) all research will be done by ourselves, and I think construction is another key tech for us (sans fresh water). I'm not sure what order everyone would prefer for those techs. I'm in favor of revolting the turn Monarchy comes in. With the travel time from the core to the front so long, holding off for a few turns to complete some more units would have no short-term benefits.
    Second, what do we want our chop-shields to go toward? There are three forests poised to be chopped in the core this set. Using them for swords/horses before anarchy is one idea, but waiting and using them for ducts or docks in the future would shorten the amount of time we weren't building units.
    Third, are we going for a Jag-induced golden age ASAP? Having them win a defensive battle at the Incan front seems to be the easiest option (as opposed to attacking a sword or spear).
     
  13. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Yah, revolt ASAP. I didn't really build any Jags (the spt worked better for swords), but it's worth doing so.

    Chopping the remaining forests into 'ducts is a good plan.

    My favored research path is Monarchy > Writing > MM > Lit > everything else. Galleys to get reinforcements to the front will help A LOT.
     
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

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    I'm not sure about revolting just yet. Has anyone done a napkin-calculation of how (badly) that's likely to affect our economy?

    Although Monarchy does have significantly less corruption/waste than Despotism, it has no Commerce-bonus, and only offers 2 free units per town, compared to Despot's 4 units per town. If we're going to put off Construction even longer, that means also putting off building Ducts to get our towns to Pop7+ (when Monarchy gives us 4 free units per settlement again).

    So never mind not being able to complete a last few units during the revolution — we're going to take a big hit to the money-belt afterwards. Have we got enough in pocket to absorb that hit long enough, to use the slightly lowered corruption in our more marginal towns to spam out Settlers for more unit-support from increased town numbers?

    (And eeeuuuurgh, are we going to be forced to ICS again?)
    I generally prefer to put chop-shields into permanent structures, but that might be just me.

    Ah, X-posted with Tusker. Not just me, then... ;)
     
  15. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Well, 215 gold @ -6gpt. IIRC we had something like 30-35 units with 55-60 free units. Cut that in half, and we're paying for maybe 7 units. Round it up to 10. Now we're at -16gpt @ 100% science (or 90/10 to avoid riots).

    Meanwhile, we can spam Settlers from 7-8 towns: Capital and both its closest neighbors, plus the city SE of Kyoto (I'm forgetting all the names!), Tzin, Edo, and yes, Vilcas, too. The city next to the fish on the isthmus might be a candidate, too.

    That ignores the need for more Workers, of course.

    OK, I'll reverse myself. Construction > Writing > MM > Lit
     
  16. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    By spam do you mean produce a settler as the town hits pop 5/6? Lower spt towns could build workers instead. Then we could just rotate through and (pre-)build ducts as those towns regrow to ~pop5 (4/5T growth, 8-10T to build a duct), 1-2 at a time.
     
  17. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    By 'spam' I just mean build a lot of them rapidly right after we revolt.
     
  18. Judminder

    Judminder Chieftain

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    From @Elephantium turnset it looks like some heavy attacks coming in from the Northern freefolk. What's your 'feel' for how it's going? I haven't had chance to look at the .SAV yet.
     
  19. jarred!

    jarred! Chieftain

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    Lol I didn't know if you were advocating pumping several settlers out of each town. Skimming a settler off the top of our larger towns is a good idea.

    In my eyes, we have enough military to hang. The issue is our attackers are nearly all injured ATM.
     
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  20. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    I was a little worried when the Mongols added some attackers. Looks like I killed nearly two dozen units -- at one point, over one dozen Incans were visible around Vilcas (but they preferred to bypass it in favor of Edo -- that saved us! If they had concentrated fire on Vilcas, they probably would have taken the city).

    Now I'd say we're doing well. We have a decent core of attackers and a manageable position at Vilcas, so we can handle the gradual trickle of units until we have a SoD ready to advance through the mountains.

    Re: Settlers, I didn't actually mean produce multiple Settlers in each city -- just that we could get half a dozen or so new ones built in the next turnset or so. That will offset the unit support costs of Monarchy. And yes, lower spt towns peeling off Workers would help with development.
     
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