JAR02, Always War Emperor

[SuedecivIII]

If we're only losing 7 gpt from unit costs in monarchy, then switching ASAP is the right call. We can then go GA and push ourselves into the next era.

 

[jarred!]

I'll probably play tomorrow night.
I looked, and with our current # towns and units, we'll end up paying 12gpt. We have over 200g, so we should be fine.

 

[CKS]

I also vote to revolt right away.

OK, I'll reverse myself. Construction > Writing > MM > Lit

I'm okay with this, although I don't really think unit support costs are going to kill us. We don't get a commerce bonus, but more cash will make its way into our treasury. I don't think we'll come out ahead, but I don't think we'll be too far behind.

One thing, though, is that we don't have lots of cities that can grow above size 6 until they have harbors. Once the jungle is chopped, most of our core can probably support 7 citizens without harbors, but it isn't just going to be a matter of building aquaducts.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Ending the despotism would give +1 food in all our cities centers, plus the wines and cows.

20 food or so per turn is definitely 12 gold per turn. If we're worried, we can invest that food into more ICS style cities down south.

>>One thing, though, is that we don't have lots of cities that can grow above size 6 until they have harbors

Any city without enough room to grow probably isn't worth building an aqueduct in anytime soon.


I'd say go for lit/mm first. If we're getting growth capped we can just build more settlers and fill up the extra space.

 

[jarred!]

50 AD, Turn 0:
Nothin'

IBT:
Incan troop movements around Vilcas
Mongol settler pair move south of Tula

70 AD, Turn 1:
Defeat an Incan archer and sword
There's one Incan sword adjacent to vilcas, defended by 4 units and a defensive bombard

sci to 50%, Monarchy due in 1, 209g, +10gpt

IBT:
Incan sword at vilcas suicides
Wandering Incan spear enters tztztz's BFC
2 mongol archers appear 2N of vilcas
mongol settler pair move out of our sight on the gold hill S of tula
Finish Monarchy, start research on Construction, due in 17 turns

90 AD, Turn 2:
Defeat Incan spear at tz, injuring our sword
Defeat a redlined archer and sword with elite horses, with no leaders
Move 2 horses toward barb camp/mongol settler pair

Revolt and fix happiness. Tlate is size 6 and will starve to size 5 during anarchy (5 turn anarchy, Construction due in 42 turns).

IBT:
Incan galley appears near Tlate.
Incans found Vitcos on the tiny iron island near the large island to the north.
Mongols found Hovd, near Tula on the southern tip of our island, discpersing the barb camp in the process.

110 AD, Turn 3:
SoD reforms at Vilcas, 1 Archer, 2 cats, 5 horses, 1 spear, 1 sword
Move 2 horses adjacent to hovd
SHuffle units around our core

IBT:
Incan galley keeps moving.
A mongol spear appears near Vilcas, 2 mongol archers move adjacent to Vilcas

130 AD, Turn 4:
Bombard the archers, 1 hit/1miss. I don't attack them. Our top defender (elite spear) has >90% of victory
Sword and spear join stack at vilcas
Hovd is +1fpt, so I attack. First vHorse gets redlined but defeats mongol spear, then promotes to elite. Second vHorse attacks and loses.

IBT:
Incan galley is NW of teno now.
Incan chasqui scout appears in mountains north of vilcas
Mongol settler pair lands near vilcas.
Another mongol spear appears via land

150 AD, Turn 5:
Troop movements around vilcas.
cats both score hits this round
Send a stack of 2 vSpear, 2 eHorses, and e*Archer towards mongol settler pair.

IBT:
Incans move stack of 6 units and a spear toward vilcas
Incans move second smaller stack of 2 swords
Incans found Andahuaylas on rubble north of Vilcas
Mongol movements, no new units from them

170 AD, Turn 6:
Last turn of anarchy
Defeat mongol spear guarding settler (gain 2 slaves) w/eHorse, no leader
Defeat 2 mongol archers, both were 2/3
Defeat Incan chasqui

IBT:
Incan vsword attacks vspear (fortified on incense hill near vilcas, protecting slaves), and wins
2 more incan swords attack our vsword, both lose. sword promotes to elite
Incan pest-galley is now near texcoco

190 AD, Turn 7:
Azteca is now a Monarchy!
Construction is due in 10@80%sci. 219g, -9gpt
Cats work to redline mongol spear. vHorse takes it out
vHorse defeats 2/3 spear healing outside of Vilcas


IBT:
Incan movements around Vilcas.
Currently 3 sword, 2 spear, 1 archer, 1 settler adjacent to vilcas
Incan galley at Tlax

210 AD, Turn 8:
Cats both miss at vilcas. Incan units are all on mountains so I wait
2 units @ Hovd to attack next turn

IBT:
2 swords sacrifice themselves on spears fortified on a mountain outside of vilcas
Incan galley is back to Texcoco
Mongol galley that dropped off units for Hovd, continued north and is near new osaka too (empty?)

230 AD, turn 9:
I scramble some units in ex-Japan to deal with potential landings
At Vilcas: cats go 1 and 1, injuring a spear. I defeat an Incan spear, sword and chasqui, losing an eHorse to an rArcher, and win an elite victory with no leader.
At Hovd: lose a sword to a spear, and a horse retreats to a second spear

IBT:
Defeat another sword at Vilcas
See some archers heading to Vilcas from Mongol core (sighted by curragh)
Mongols land a horse at Kyoto

250 AD, Turn 10:
Collect 2 more slaves at Vilcas
Defeat 2/3 incan archer at vilcas
Mongol horse at Kyoto stands up against our sword, but falls to a spear (yikes)

Notes:
We were low on defense in Japan, but it was fairly easy to deal with the one landing we had. The mongols founded Hovd and I had trouble destroying it, at this point it might be worth waiting until it's size 2.
Fighting at Vilcas has been steady, but not too heavy. With a rax there, we should be able to muster enough healthy units on the same turn to push onward.

There are some units with movement at Vilcas.

 

[CKS]

Looks good.

I've got it. It looks like I should push on past Vilcas but make sure to leave some offensive units behind to deal with landings. Bigger towns should get aquaducts one or two at a time, so as to not interfere too much with the flow of units. I'm thinking the settlers should go somewhere where they have some grassland so they can grow at least a little, even though it means a bit of a walk. We could ICS the plains instead, if money gets too tight, but I think we'll be okay.

Other thoughts? I should be able to play tomorrow night.

 

[Elephantium]

Looking at the save...

* Vilcas is very secure, with no enemies threatening. Only one Incan sword is even visible!
* However, I see a LOT of mines going in near Vilcas when we could be building roads instead.
* Our core is coming along nicely -- I see lots of Swords due soon.
* Cities without Barracks shouldn't be building Swordsmen. Spears are OK, or Cats, or Raxes if they can get a reasonable spt (5+ spt after corruption). Regular swords, though, are just a waste of time.
* We could use a pair of Horsemen at Kyoto and another pair at Tzin to respond to landings.
* We have two Settlers moving away from our core. Thoughts on placement? I like these three locations:

1. Somewhere in the plains between Xochi and Mali. Maybe right next to the Game?
2. The coastal spot by the fish and whales, W-SW from Vilcas
3. One of the tundra tiles 2S or 2S-SE from Edo.

1 helps fill in the gap in our culture borders; 2 and 3 would be more productive cities with better growth prospects.

With 8 attackers and 2 Spears near Vilcas, I'd say wait 2-3 turns to heal up the stack, then advance towards the NE while gathering a secondary force (including Jags) to take Andahuaylas.

Repeating because it's that important: Build barracks before producing attack units! Regulars make me sad.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Agreed Elephantium.

We definitely need to road north through the mountains asap. It's gonna be a big hurdle to clear.

 

[jarred!]

Apologies on the worker allocation. The Incas sent several stacks that took a few turns to deal with (as in your turnset, they generally passed by vilcas for easier targets), so I used our workers and slaves in the area to improve nearby towns to keep them out of danger so I wouldn't have to spend units on worker-guard-duty.

 

[tjs282]

We definitely need to road north through the mountains asap. It's gonna be a big hurdle to clear.

Haven't DL'd the save yet, but from the last posted screenie (Tusker's set-ender), the quickest route (fewest Worker-turns to complete) looks to be via the 3 Plains NE from Vilcas, and then over that Hill 1S of the Incan Wines? With a 3-pack of Slaves, we could do that in 3*(1+2) + (1+4) = 14 T — or less, if any of those tiles already have roads(?).

(I know moving multiple Workers/Slaves onto a single unroaded tile is usually considered a bad idea, but under AW conditions, it seems preferable to keep Workers stacked, to make them easier to defend).

In the meantime, if we already have a decent stack to send up the Mountain-range ahead of the Slaves, we should be able to fend off the incoming almost as easily at the north end of the range as at Vilcas (just can't send the Cats over the Mountains, but they could stay in Vilcas for now, or back up any Swords/Spears we have guarding the Slave-pack). Once the Slaves arrive at the northern end as well, the stack could protect them as they road that Hill, by which time they're all only 2T away from that Incan Wines-town (is that Andahuaylas?). But with the road to Inca-town now mostly in place from our end, the stack can easily be reinforced by Horses/Swords from Vilcas and points south/west, while also protecting the Slaves as they continue their war-road building further into Incaland/Mongolia.

Alternatively, we could send the Slave-stack to road up the west side of the Mountain-range, past the peninsula NW of Vilcas. This would take longer in total: 1 Hill (1+4T) + 4 Plains (1+2T each) + 1 Mountain (1+6T) = 24T for the same 3-pack of Slaves — but we're going to want a road from that peninsula anyway, for unit-shipping, so it might be better to do it on the way up to the front, rather than building an east road and then having to backtrack the Slaves down it, or divert further Workers/Slaves up west later on.

On which subject... Do we have a town planted to replace Tabriz yet? If not, and we can already get a Settler up there safely (protected by the stack for most of its journey?), the town would have some time to grow while we get Writing and Maps (15T or so after Construction is in?), and can then serve as a Harbour for building boats, and disembarking units shipped over from our core.

 

[jarred!]

Andahuaylas was founded where Tabriz was, I believe. We don't know the name of the wines town.
Roading the flatter land would be faster, and I wouldn't be opposed to using a slave stack for that purpose. (None of the tiles in our end are roaded yet) The Incas have been sending their units past vilcas, I think an archer attacking our fortified spear has <10% chance at victory.

 

[Elephantium]

Apologies on the worker allocation

No worries; keeping them safe from capture is more important than keeping them working next to Vilcas. That being said, I was hoping to see a few more roads under construction -- a new route through Vilcas' tobacco would be nice, along with roads for the empty grasslands in that area

(I know moving multiple Workers/Slaves onto a single unroaded tile is usually considered a bad idea, but under AW conditions, it seems preferable to keep Workers stacked, to make them easier to defend).

I don't generally worry about lost Worker moves when building roads; the exigency of getting the road built is usually worth it. Defense is easier, too

One other thought: MM around our core. Once the second banana by Teoti is cleared of jungle, then all three cities can be running at +5 fpt: Tenoch, Teoti, and Tlate. I like the idea of evenly distributing food that way -- no need to let Tenoch hog it all! By the same token, it might be time to build a Rax in Teoti -- or maybe just pump workers? Either way, I'd recommend moving most of the Workers near Texcoco and Calix to help chop jungle once their current chores are done.

 

[CKS]

Three turns in, we have a GL. I think we should make a sword army. Any objections?

 

[Elephantium]

Sounds good to me.

 

[Judminder]

Thumbs up from me!

 

[jarred!]

Sword army sounds good!

 

[tjs282]

I agree. With a Sword-Army to cover our Horses, we should finally be able to make some headway.

(That's not criticism of any recent turnsets, BTW: advancing our war-front beyond Vilcas was clearly not possible while the AI-stacks were still incoming).

 

[SuedecivIII]

Sounds perfect. Like Tj said, a great escort for our horses.

 

[jarred!]

We don't have too many horses, unless CKS has put emphasis on building more. My hands were tied due to the 5 turn anarchy, but I think building some more horses and some cats now that we have enough of a stack to push forward with would be beneficial.

 

[Elephantium]

IMO having two cats during my turnset was just about perfect -- they would take a shot (and at least ping) an enemy unit just about every turn without feeling like we'd shoveled too many shields into cats and away from swords and spears. That being said, spears were in short supply...I hope we can build a few more. IMO we should have ~10 near the front:

two to defend Vilcas
two each to defend two worker stacks
four on the SoD advancing (drop off two at the next town conquered)
two following as replacements for losses

That being said, building a steady stream of attack units is more important.