JAR02, Always War Emperor

[Spoonwood]

Thanks for playing!





We've played a cultural game, a military game, maybe a science game next?
Small, pangaea... We play as a non-scientific civ vs non-scientific AI?

Sounds like it could be an experiment.

My experience with science games is that I tend to feel that I've won by the industrial age. I had one time where I played as The Zulu on Deity vs. 4 non-scientific opponents, standard sized map, and I was behind. Then I learned Steam Power first and after that it was fairly usual as I recall (though I think I did play it over 10 years ago now). My Sid spaceship game didn't feel that way, but I did also pick up some techs for free without using The Great Library.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Good job everyone!

My experience with science games is that I tend to feel that I've won by the industrial age. I had one time where I played as The Zulu on Deity vs. 4 non-scientific opponents, standard sized map, and I was behind. Then I learned Steam Power first and after that it was fairly usual as I recall (though I think I did play it over 10 years ago now). My Sid spaceship game didn't feel that way, but I did also pick up some techs for free without using The Great Library.

I've seen it said before that the human player is much more skilled at using the tools given in the industrial era, and it pushes things over the edge in their favor. That and how awful the AI are at teching during it, and it being a safe phase with a lot of defensive options. If you were even going into the industrial era, it's just so easy to pull ahead, especially with a tech lead.

 

[tjs282]

Small, pangaea... We play as a non-scientific civ vs non-scientific AI?

Small-size map just to speed up the game? Standard might be more interesting though (more opponents to beat)

Continents (or 60% Archi) also allows more tech-trading/brokering opportunities than Pan, if we can contact the Civs on the other landmass(es) early using suicide-boats: on a Pan-Map, they'll all meet each other early on, and trade techs fast, which risks getting left behind (at least in the early game).

OTOH, on a Pan-map we'd also have (potential) access to all 8 Luxes from the get-go (provided we can obtain them — one way or another!), making happiness easier to manage long before we've researched Magnets (so we can start running Pop12 research-cities as early as possible at minimal LUX%).

I've seen it said before that the human player is much more skilled at using the tools given in the industrial era, and it pushes things over the edge in their favor. That and how awful the AI are at teching during it, and it being a safe phase with a lot of defensive options. If you were even going into the industrial era, it's just so easy to pull ahead, especially with a tech lead.

I agree.

But if you/we want a challenge, how about all-Scientific opponents, and we play as one of the 'weaker' (non-Scientific) Civs (per @Ision), such as I dunno, the Portuguese (Sea, Exp, useless UU)...?

Deal?

 

[CKS]

To make expansionist civs properly weak, we should play with no barbs. Also, playing with scientific opponents doesn't make a science game harder, it makes it faster.

I've hardly ever played the Portuguese, so I'm up for playing with them.

At what difficulty do we want to play? If we are going up in difficulty, then pangaea becomes trickier. If we go to demigod or deity, I'd rather play continents.

 

[jarred!]

I thought we could bump up to Demigod? If that's the case, then we could play on continents with a higher land area?
I said a small map because turn times will be faster, but I do enjoy playing huge maps. If the team wants to go big, I'm game.
If we go with scientific opponents, maybe we make a rule against gifting them to the next age to get their free techs? I like the idea of playing as the Portuguese vs scientific civs, with no barbs.

 

[Elephantium]

Congrats everyone! Good game.

I'm going to sit the next one out, but I'll have more time in September or October.

 

[jarred!]

Thanks, @Elephantium! You're always welcome back.

 

[CKS]

I thought we could bump up to Demigod? If that's the case, then we could play on continents with a higher land area?
I said a small map because turn times will be faster, but I do enjoy playing huge maps. If the team wants to go big, I'm game.
If we go with scientific opponents, maybe we make a rule against gifting them to the next age to get their free techs? I like the idea of playing as the Portuguese vs scientific civs, with no barbs.

On demigod, we probably won't be in the position where gifting them to the middle ages or industrial age comes up.
This sounds fine. I have no opinion on the larger/smaller map size. Whatever is fine with me.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Hmmm. The game you're describing sounds really temping. But I'm going to be travelling over the next couple of month and can't guarantee internet connection. I'll join if you guys need someone else to balance out the roster.

Standard 70% continents has always been a favorite of mine.

 

[jarred!]

Hmmm. The game you're describing sounds really temping. But I'm going to be travelling over the next couple of month and can't guarantee internet connection. I'll join if you guys need someone else to balance out the roster.

Standard 70% continents has always been a favorite of mine.

Because it's similar to Earth's geography?

Without you, suede, it's only me, CKS, and tjs282, are we ok with only having a 3-person roster? It would mean quick turn around between sets.

On demigod, we probably won't be in the position where gifting them to the middle ages or industrial age comes up.

You're probably right! I just wanted to avoid the potentiality of getting 9 free techs at the start of an era (in this game...)

 

[tjs282]

Because it's similar to Earth's geography?

That's actually my 'preferred' setting too, and for that reason.

Without you, suede, it's only me, CKS, and tjs282, are we ok with only having a 3-person roster? It would mean quick turn around between sets.

I'm OK with it just being us three, though that should warrant fair warning. If you're serious about playing at DG (and especially if at Deity!), then it might be more like 'two-and-a-half'!

DG is as high as I've ever dared go (on all-Random starts), and only a few times (because I'm a chicken). Though I have technically lost only one of those games, I pretty much lost interest in/ abandoned the others (even if my Civ had survived a lot longer than I expected to!) when it became clear I was not going to win. So some lifting on your parts may be required!

Or perhaps we could open the floor? @Spoonwood is a HOF-veteran, and knows his stuff. I'd also vouch for @CommandoBob, @Lanzelot, @choxorn, and @Nathiri as solid SG-players (if any of them have the time). And/or maybe @Quintillus, who was (also) originally rostered to play in (y)our Spanish game...?

 

[choxorn]

Appreciate the invite, but I'm probably not going to have time to play over the next few months. Good luck on your spaceship launching!

 

[Spoonwood]

I think that Emperor playing for a 'self-reliant' spaceship launch, meaning that you never trade for technologies, is possible. I also believe that demi-god self-reliant spaceship launch is possible, but of course, I feel less certain of that.

 

[SuedecivIII]

I think that Emperor playing for a 'self-reliant' spaceship launch, meaning that you never trade for technologies, is possible. I also believe that demi-god self-reliant spaceship launch is possible, but of course, I feel less certain of that.

Without conquest? Definitely for emperor. For demigod, it might be harder to pull ahead, but likely doable. You might need a favorable map though. And a better civ than Portugal hahah.

Because it's similar to Earth's geography?

Not quite. It's just the "middle of the road" set of settings. I've always seen continents as the most balanced civ experience. A balance between the island hopping of archipelago and the "ignore naval stuff completely" of pangea. Plus it's what I used to play growing up, so it's a bit nostalgic for me.

.

 

[Spoonwood]

Not quite.

I looked it up. It looks like the Earth is approximately 71% water. So, 70% continents indeed does seem to appear closer to Earth's geography than anything else. Unless something else got meant, and I misunderstood.

 

[CKS]

If you're serious about playing at DG (and especially if at Deity!), then it might be more like 'two-and-a-half'!

DG is as high as I've ever dared go (on all-Random starts) ... So some lifting on your parts may be required!

Since jarred! proclaimed himself a monarch level player when we started JAR01 and you and I described our comfort difficulty levels pretty similarly, I'm not sure that we'll be doing the lifting. Having to justify our actions and trading off every 10 turns to a person who focuses on different issues should help us out, though.

Still, if we can find additional players, that'd be great.

 

[SuedecivIII]

Since jarred! proclaimed himself a monarch level player when we started JAR01 and you and I described our comfort difficulty levels pretty similarly, I'm not sure that we'll be doing the lifting. Having to justify our actions and trading off every 10 turns to a person who focuses on different issues should help us out, though.

The thing that seems really cool to me about succession games is the whole is more than the sum of the parts. 3 monarch players could play comfortably on higher difficulty levels by combining their strengths, plus a little overthinking.

I looked it up. It looks like the Earth is approximately 71% water. So, 70% continents indeed does seem to appear closer to Earth's geography than anything else. Unless something else got meant, and I misunderstood.

It is the most earthlike, but that's not why I like it

 

[Nathiri]

I think that Emperor playing for a 'self-reliant' spaceship launch, meaning that you never trade for technologies, is possible. I also believe that demi-god self-reliant spaceship launch is possible, but of course, I feel less certain of that.

Yeah Emperor self-reliant Space Race is totally possible. On most of my emperor games, I prefer to ignore the AI almost completely, which does cause them to want to go to war with me. I did a Egypt space race continents not that long ago and I got a full era and a half ahead of the AI. I only did trading in the ancient era, but after that, I teched too fast for them. I did conquer 2 civs on my continent since I needed the space and they declared war, but after that I didnt go to war till the very end since I realized I lacked uranium and aluminum, so I used my modern weapons and decimated a neighbouring continent . I even went for Sanitation and got some of my cities above pop 12 and one city in particular got to 60+ shields per turn. I had several cities high production and it made those parts so easy to build.

I'm starting college soon, so I wont have much time for a SG.

 

[jarred!]

I'm OK with it just being us three, though that should warrant fair warning. If you're serious about playing at DG (and especially if at Deity!), then it might be more like 'two-and-a-half'!

DG is as high as I've ever dared go (on all-Random starts), and only a few times (because I'm a chicken). Though I have technically lost only one of those games, I pretty much lost interest in/ abandoned the others (even if my Civ had survived a lot longer than I expected to!) when it became clear I was not going to win. So some lifting on your parts may be required!

Or perhaps we could open the floor?

Since jarred! proclaimed himself a monarch level player when we started JAR01 and you and I described our comfort difficulty levels pretty similarly, I'm not sure that we'll be doing the lifting. Having to justify our actions and trading off every 10 turns to a person who focuses on different issues should help us out, though.

Still, if we can find additional players, that'd be great.

Yeah, let's leave enrollment open, if anyone else wants to join, we have a few open spots we can accommodate people with.

Stats: Portugal, large, 70% continents map with no barbs (warm, temperate, 4 billion?), playing for a space victory (all vcs enabled minus wonder victory), preserve random seed, allow cultural conversions, allow SGL.
This allows for 11 opponents, there are only 9 scientific civs, however. Do we want to add 2 other civs for a full roster? Sounds like DG is the difficulty we're going with.

The only restriction is to disallow gifting backward civs to the next age for the sole purpose of us scalping their free, now reduced price, techs. 'Regular' tech trading is allowed.

I played a huge space game as Portugal this spring, not that it makes me an expert. I built a huge area of breaker farming, but it wasn't really needed, and I was able to 4 turn techs with my specialists set as taxmen. I think faster wins are possible with a smaller, more efficient empire and good trading relationships ("0 turn research is faster than 4 turn research").

If those settings are agreeable, I can roll some starts this evening and we can get started.

 

[CKS]

Sounds good to me. Roll away.