1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

JAR03: Portugal, DG, Space Race

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by jarred!, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Had a look at the save, and I think we'll want to resettle both the Greek and Russian regions?:
    settling greece.png
    settling russia.png
    I settled along the rivers only, but more cities can be added to fill in the gaps. I moved Delphi off of the spices, making this new city the FP-city would be nice due to the high commerce.

    I also think we should trade theology and wines, along with an aliiance vs the Greeks, to the Germans for: chivalry, invention and 25 (all)g.
    Then, turn around and sell theology to the Koreans for 393g and 63gpt.
    If we want to, we should still be able to use theology to buy the byzantines into the war vs the greeks if we wish.
    With this cash, we'll then be able to upgrade all of our horses to knights.

    As for science, we learn education in six turns. Astro should cost 2560 and we're currently researching @212 bpt, which will take 13 turns at that rate. I think we should swap the build in Lisbon to Sistine as a prebuild for Cop's. Our other top commerce cities, maybe the first ring, could prebuild for unis?
     
  2. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    No thoughts on the prebuild for Cops or the trades/alliances?
    Newton's will be the next wonder so we might want to decide where we'll want that as well.
     
  3. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,522
    Location:
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    I think that the more AI-Civs that we can persuade to DoW Alex, the better! :hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer::hammer:

    And if we're selling widely-known techs for it, then getting Chiv without having to research it ourselves is also worthwhile. Since we can't unhook our Iron, though, (after our Horses are upgraded) we will have to hand-build our Knights. To do that quickly (5, 4, or 3 turns) with zero to minimal shield-wastage, we need

    14 SPT (built in 5T, no waste)
    15-17 SPT (shortrush to Mace after 2T, costs 24-40 gold, built in 4T, wastes 0-4 shields)
    18 SPT (built in 4T, wastes 2 shields)
    20 SPT (shortrush to Settler after 1T, costs 40 gold, built in 3T, no waste)
    24 SPT (built in 3T, wastes 2 shields)

    Can our Pop7+ Rax-towns already hit any of those magic numbers without starving?

    We definitely want to scalp Wang for his gold, but have you started playing your set already? If you haven't, remember that I sold him [Literature?] early on in my set, so that deal should be nearing completion soon: consider waiting until it's done, and then he should have even more GPT available.

    Cops is also a good goal: but do we really want/need to start (pre)building it before Lisbon has a Uni? If so (e.g. because there's a Wonder-cascade in the offing which will remove all our currently available prebuild-options), then go for it, but a Uni should probably be the next build afterwards. Otherwise, I would say convert SisChap to a Uni as soon as Edu is in, then (re)start (pre)building SisChap (or another suitable GW/SW) for Cops while you research Astro (it's not like we're at 4T-research already, right? ;) )

    Adding Newtons to Cops is a no-brainer, but ToG/Newtons is still quite a long way down the tree (we also need Gunpowder, Chem, and Physics first), so we still have plenty of time to think about it, and probably don't need to start prebuilding it immediately after (the Uni + ) Cops is done.

    However... I'm also wondering if we should go for Navi after Astro? Safe Ocean travel would let us trade for Luxes with the Koreans, Ottomans, Babs and Sumerians (after we make peace, of course!), but it also opens up Magellans, which gives Portugal a 1-Wonder GA. We could really do with a GA soon, to get our Knights and Unis built really quickly, for subduing the [Greeks,] Russians, Byzzies and Germans; while also racing us forwards through the tree.

    (Of course, we could also try triggering our GA with a Carrack... but I think doing it with Magellans is more fitting/elegant!)

    And then by the time our GA is done, we should be tech-leader anyway, and a lot closer to ToG (i.e. we should learn it first!), so Newtons should be a shoo-in.

    Not sure about your dotmaps, though.

    Some of those river-town sites look very overcrowded. River-towns that will still be relatively non-corrupt (say, ~50% after we have our FP, and the town has a Courthouse) should still get their full 12 workable tiles (and a Market, and a Lib, and maybe a Uni!). And even the river-towns that are 'only' going to be beaker-farms, should still be allowed to get to Pop12 if possible (so will need 5-6 fully irrigated tiles each).

    Also, there's no reason to move (Greek/Russian) town-sites off Strat- or Lux- or Bonus (shield/commerce)-resources just for the sake of it: only Bonus (food)-resources 'need' to be avoided when Settling (because Settling directly on them means that the extra FPT is lost).

    And finally, a heads-up:

    I am going on vacation for 2 weeks this Friday (autumn school-holidays), so I will not be able to take the next set.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    jarred! likes this.
  4. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    I have no issues with city locations, but we'll need a lot more. I don't see any reason to move Delphi, as we get the extra commerce if we settle on the spices anyway (but it won't hurt), but it'll be way too corrupt for building the FP unless we get a leader for it.

    I'd like to have the Observatory in Lisbon, but I have concerns about losing the Sistine Chapel before we can switch to the Observatory, so maybe another city would be better. Several civs cascaded to Leo's when Sun Tzu's was built, so they could easily cascade to SC when we trade theology around.

    I'm not sure that it is worth it to form more alliances against the Greeks, since they aren't putting up much resistance, but I'm not opposed to it.
     
  5. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    I like this idea.
    While the river towns are close along the river, they have access to plenty of tiles off the river, so I don't think there is a lot to worry about here. This is something to keep an eye on, though.
     
  6. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    I haven't started playing yet:

    >Can our Pop7+ Rax-towns already hit any of those magic numbers without starving?
    Besides Lisbon, I'm not sure. If we irrigate some BGs, and then work an irrigated BG and a mined hill (instead of a mined grassland), we'd still get 4 food, but gain an extra shield.

    >We definitely want to scalp Wang for his gold, but have you started playing your set already? If you haven't, remember that I sold him [Literature?] early on in my set, so that deal should be nearing completion soon: consider waiting until it's done, and then he should have even more GPT available.
    There's 7 turns left on that deal... Worth waiting still? (He's giving us 77gpt)

    >I'd like to have the Observatory in Lisbon, but I have concerns about losing the Sistine Chapel before we can switch to the Observatory, so maybe another city would be better. Several civs cascaded to Leo's when Sun Tzu's was built, so they could easily cascade to SC when we trade theology around.
    >Cops is also a good goal: but do we really want/need to start (pre)building it before Lisbon has a Uni?
    All AI are building Leo's right now. A city like Oporto or Emerita are pulling in 10spt, and could be high commerce. Would we rather use a palace pre build in one of those, and swap to a uni pre build in Lisbon?

    >Building Magellan's
    Good idea. I don't think using a few turns on optional techs is going to hurt, especially when it will benefit us so nicely.

    >Some of those river-town sites look very overcrowded
    >Also, there's no reason to move (Greek/Russian) town-sites off Strat- or Lux- or Bonus
    I see a dot in ex Russia I placed in a lot of desert that should be omitted, but the others should all be able to hit 12, most even pre rails, but I doubt they'll actually hit 12 much before that. I thought we were razing and replacing everything, I'm ok with keeping some stuff.

    >but it'll be way too corrupt for building the FP unless we get a leader for it.
    That was kind of the plan. I didn't know if that might work better than building in Faro, which is currently Russian. And, dealing with Delphi flipping while we mop up the rest of Greece, as opposed to settling a new town, will cost extra units/support.

    Sorry about the odd quoting, it was easier this way on mobile
     
    tjs282 likes this.
  7. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    I wouldn't wait 7 turns to trade with Korea.
    I'm more comfortable with a university in Lisbon and a palace prebuild somewhere else.
     
  8. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    In my recent standard Demigod Diplo game, I expanded to about 20 cities and stayed there the whole game. The only time I was unable to 4T research was at the start of the IA when the techs got really expensive and I didn't have access to coal in my territory (no rails). I was also able to keep all the AI alive as peaceful trading partners and received a nice number of techs from them. Point being, if we stop short of conquering our land mass and keep more AI alive, we should research faster overall even if we aren't able to reach 4T rates ourselves (but we probably still could).
    Going for space... I'm concerned about being nuked like a Pacific Sandbar in the 50s once we start building parts :crazyeye:.
     
  9. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Turn 0, 170 AD:
    Dial up Germany: I decide to not buy an alliance with him, in order to get both invention and chivalry in an alliance deal we'd need to include either cash (needed for upgrades and research) or wines (trade route goes through russian territory, didn't want to force us to wait another 20T to DoW), so I leave out the alliance.
    We give Theology, we get invention, chovalry, 25g, 16gpt.
    To Korea: Theology, we get 393g, 63gpt

    Tech Sitch:
    Babylon (at war): we're up Theo, Chiv
    Ottomans (at war): we're up Theo, Chiv
    Greece (at war): we're up theo, we're down gunpowder
    Byzantines: we're up Theo and Chiv
    Russia: we're up Theo and Chiv
    Germany: parity, and we still have wines they might want
    Persia: backwards af
    Korea: we're up Chiv
    Sumeria (at war): they won't talk to us

    Treasury: 1724g @+39gpt
    212bpt to science edu in 6T

    Greeks have gunpowder, but only have 2 mountain tiles on which saltpeter could have spawned. EDIT: and like 7 desert in the southeast
    I can upgrade all but 4 horsemen, 8*120=960g, plus 2 archers to LBM (2*60=120) 1080g needed for upgrades

    MM:
    move a citz in guim south so oporto can give a mined river bg back to lisbon
    change build in lisbon to colosseum (pre-build for uni)
    change builds oporto, guim, lagos, rio to knights
    change build in Emerita to palace (pre-build for Cop's), mm to grow in 2T

    They don't seem to have muskets yet at least.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
    tjs282 likes this.
  10. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Turn 0, 170 AD:
    Dial up Germany: I decide to not buy an alliance with him, in order to get both invention and chivalry in an alliance deal we'd need to include either cash (needed for upgrades and research) or wines (trade route goes through russian territory, didn't want to force us to wait another 20T to DoW), so I leave out the alliance.
    We give Theology, we get invention, chovalry, 25g, 16gpt.
    To Korea: Theology, we get 393g, 63gpt

    Tech Sitch:
    Babylon (at war): we're up Theo, Chiv
    Ottomans (at war): we're up Theo, Chiv
    Greece (at war): we're up theo, we're down gunpowder
    Byzantines: we're up Theo and Chiv
    Russia: we're up Theo and Chiv
    Germany: parity, and we still have wines they might want
    Persia: backwards af
    Korea: we're up Chiv
    Sumeria (at war): they won't talk to us

    Treasury: 1724g @+39gpt
    212bpt to science edu in 6T

    Greeks have gunpowder, but only have 2 mountain tiles on which saltpeter could have spawned (as long as floodplains count as a separate type than desert?)
    I can upgrade all but 4 horsemen, 8*120=960g, plus 2 archers to LBM (2*60=120) 1080g needed for upgrades

    MM:
    move a citz in guim south so oporto can give a mined river bg back to lisbon
    change build in lisbon to colosseum (pre-build for uni)
    change builds oporto, guim, lagos, rio to knights
    change build in Emerita to palace (pre-build for Cop's), mm to grow in 2T

    IBT:
    Russians, Koreans ask us to leave
    We go 1-1 defending w/ vPikes vs vLBM at sparta

    Turn 1, 190 AD:
    Seems like the greek galleys will land at lisbon, so I muster a small force to keep in Evora and Oporto

    Siege of Sparta:
    Bombardments: 5/8; 2/4 2 hops, 3/4 another
    vMDI defeats 3/4 hop
    Our eMDI has 77% victory chance vs 2/4 hop...he loses w/o causing damage
    2 more vMDIs defeat the 2 remaining hops
    vMDI defeats one final LBM defender, we RAZE the city, capturing 6 slaves
    Fortify the stack in place to guard used trebs and new slaves

    KO a rLBM outside of Ephesus with a vMDI
    Fortify a large stack ~15 units at Luanda in preparation for Ephesus seige

    Germany now has gunpowder, too. Sumeria is ready to talk; they're still in AA (need Currency)
    GP is still too expensive for us, but now that 2 on our island have it, I expect the price will drop soon

    IBT:
    Lose 2 loose MDI to Greek LBM
    Greeks start SisChap

    Turn 2, 210 AD:
    Evora: Lib>Knight
    Upgrade 2 more horses to knights
    Looks like WW hits, I am able to bump up lux to 20% (sci down to 80%), but still finish Edu in 4

    eHorse wins vs Greek LBM, no leader

    IBT:
    Greek LBM defeats an MDI guarding the settler
    Greeks land a hop and an archer at Lisbon

    Turn 3, 230 AD:
    Found Alcacer do sal: Courthouse
    Clean up the landing party with knights
    Defeat Greek LBM at Alcacer do sal
    Send some of the sparta stack to pillage one of the Greeks' wines, rest of hte stack heads to Ephesus

    Siege at Ephesus:
    treb hits, and reveals an rHop.
    I attac with a knight, who loses and promotes the hop
    I station several more knights on mountains around the city, and capture 2 slaves

    IBT:
    We lose another knight to a greek LBM

    Turn 4, 250 AD:
    Guim: knight>knight
    Coimbra: treb>treb

    clean up 2 lbm and a hop in greece. I wait for some more trebs to attack Ephesus

    IBT:
    Our pike defends against a greek LBM
    Greeks drop off a hop south of lisbon

    Turn 5, 260 AD:
    Lieria: Knight>knight
    Rio: knight>knight

    drop sci to 40% for Edu to finish next turn
    realize Evora doesn't have a rax 32 shields into a knight build so I swap it to a rax and move some citizens to the coast to increase commerce and lower shield loss. Also give some northern cities some more food because of this.

    defeat the landed hop
    defeat a roaming hop in greece

    IBT:
    Greek LBM defeats pike guarding a stack in Greece

    Turn 6, 270 AD:
    Education finishes and I choose Astronomy next. Bump sci up to 80%, due in 12T

    Evora: rax>knight

    Siege at Ephesus:
    cats go 2/9, revealing a rHop, so I decide to attack with the knights
    knights go 3-2-1 (w/l/r), and we raze Ephesus capturing 8 more slaves!
    we don't have a settler to fill in the free terrain, but maybe the Greeks will send settler pairs here, even while at war?

    clean up a LBM and a hop in Greece

    IBT:
    2 greek LBMs defeat a MDI and a pike

    Germany calls us up and demands wines. I consider it and decide that he might be bluffing. He's not, and we're now at war with germany.

    Russia captures Mycenae

    Turn 7, 280 AD:
    Oporto: knight>settler

    Our PT deal with the koreans expired too, and they're broke now, so we're at negative gpt now.
    Dial up the Byz and buy them into alliances vs Germany and Greece with Theology
    With the new WH I drop lux to 10%. I decide to drop sci to 70% to save cash. Astro in 13T, but the pre build is 2X turns out

    swap Leiria to a settler

    ehorse defeats injured LBM
    MDI defeats another greek LBM

    I split our main stack, sending half to Athens and half to Thermopylae

    IBT:
    Greek LBM defeats another MDI
    Greeks land Hop next to lisbon

    Turn 8, 290 AD:
    Coimbra: Treb>Treb
    Leiria settler>knight

    defeat landed hop with a knight, who promotes to elite. Resolve to keep unit fortified on the irrigated cow to block landings

    IBT:


    Turn 9, 300 AD:
    WW hits and Oporto riots, but I zoom to city and save the rest from the same fate
    raise lux back to 20%

    defeat stray LBM near Athens
    Move small stack around Argos

    Siege of Thermo:
    trebs go 4/5, showing a injured vhop on top
    knight loses, relining hop
    lose 3 MDI relining 3 vhops, and another knocking a promoted unit back to 1/5
    MDI then go on to defeat 4 hops and 2 LBM
    I decide to keep the city. It's size 11 with 10 resistors. We capture 6 slaves
    I can only muster 4 units as a garrison

    IBT:
    2 LBM attack knights. one knight wins, one retreats

    Turn 10, 310 AD:
    Lagos: Knight>Harbor
    Sagres: Treb>Rax

    knight retreats from LBM near Argos
    I leave 4 units in Thermo, and keep 4 more adjacent to the city, due to the 50% flip risk

    Siege of Athens:
    trebs go 2/5, with vhop still showing, so I fortify the stack

    Notes:
    Greek galleys are reguarly dropping units at Lisbon, they should avoid all other undefended cities and disembark at Lisbon as lon as it's undefended
    These have units:
    boats.png

    The settler was headed to the spot between the wheats and the wines
    Maybe consider attacking the injured greek LBM south of Argos with our eHorse?

    I started a Harbor in Lagos, should Guim get one soon as well?

    If we want to stir up some action on the other continent, we could get peace with the ottos (or bab/sumer too), and buy them into a war with the others. This would involve trading Education away, but maybe we could get gunpowder from the byz or maybe babs as a part of the deals.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    Sounds like we are making good progress.
    The flip risk in Thermopylae is ridiculously high - if we want to try to keep it, I'm okay with that, but we can't keep any units in there.

    Stirring up wars on the other continent will slow their tech rate, which we maybe don't want to do. We'd like them to learn some techs for us. Also, it means giving up war happiness, which we can use right now. When they can reach us, I may feel differently, but right now I'd prefer not to make peace with them.
     
  12. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    Turn 0 – 310 AD
    Move units out of Thermopylae, except the wounded MDI. Swap Leiria citizen to get 10 shields, short rush knight.
    IBT: Oporto settler > knight, Guim knight > knight, Leiria knight > knight, Braga knight > knight. Longbow dies to MDI.

    Turn 1 – 320 AD
    Advance on Athens, bombard it showing at least 6 hoplites.
    IBT: Longbow dies to MDI, promoting it to 5/5. 2 hoplites land near Lisbon. Lisbon finishes university, starts settler. Coimbra treb > treb. Evora knight > university. Byzantines finish Leo's.

    Turn 2, 330 AD
    Bomb hoplite landing. Knight dies redlining hoplite. Knight kills hoplite, Eknight kills redlined hoplite. Build Guarda between wheats and wines. Advance on Athens.
    IBT: zzz

    Turn 3, 340 AD
    Trade Byzantines horses + Education for Gunpowder + 5 gpt.
    Make Embassy with Korea, think about trading them Education for cash and alliances but decide against it – their continent is still behind in tech.
    IBT: Byzantines want 1 gpt to keep our lux deal going. Thermopylae flips.

    Turn 4, 350 AD
    Retake Thermopylae, put 3 MDI in it. Bombarding at Athens isn't great, but I attack anyway. Knight dies redlining vet hoplite, reg hoplite shows. 2nd dies redlining reg hoplite, which promotes. 3rd kills hoplite. 4th kills hoplite, 5th dies redlining hoplite. Longbow kills hoplite, MDI kills hoplite. MDI kills hoplite, MDI dies to 2/4 hoplite. E knight redlines killing hoplite. Longbow dies redlining hoplite. 2 knights attacking across river kill hoplites. Ehorse kills longbow. E MDI kills hoplite. 10 units killed, redlined vet hoplite showing. Decide to try with pike – kills hoplite, still showing another. 2nd pike dies.
    IBT: Sagres barracks > knight. Rio Janeiro knight > knight. Koreans finish Sistine Chapel.

    Turn 5, 350 AD
    Move units out of Thermopylae. Bomb Athens, again not so great, but they only have one hoplite. Knight dies, E MDI kills it. Keep city – Sun Tzu's, Gwall, Pyramids, + 5 workers; 10 resistors. New capital is Delphi. Knight kills longbow outside city. Put 9 units in Athens.
    IBT: Lisbon settler > knight. Lagos harbor > courthouse.

    Turn 6, 360 AD
    Move toward Argos. Pull most units out of Athens. Build Castelo Branco.
    IBT: Byzantines make peace with Greece. Emerita riots. Coimbra treb > settler.

    Turn 7, 370 AD
    Bomb Argos with the treb that is there – only one vet hoplite there. I decide to try attacking without my other trebs. Lose 2 knights, take the town and 4 workers. Move other trebs toward Delphi.
    IBT: Athens flips. Rio Janeiro and Sagres knights > knights.

    Turn 8, 380 AD
    At Athens: Knight retreats, knight kills hoplite, MDI dies to hoplite. Move trebs next to Delphi.
    IBT: Guim, Leiria knight > knight. Luanda library > courthouse.

    Turn 9, 390 AD
    At Athens: Knight retreats, knight kills hoplite, MDI kills hoplite, we take the town. Bomb at Delphi and advance toward it.
    IBT: Byzantines demand contact with Babs. I give in. Russia makes peace with Greece, declares on Byzantines. Now I regret giving in to the Byzantine demand.
    Longbow dies to knight. Hoplite lands by Lisbon. Thermopylae worker > worker, Sao Paulo library > knight, Coimbra settler > knight. Learn astronomy, start navigation. Swap palace build to Cope's.

    Turn 10, 400 AD
    Kill hoplite by Lisbon. Do some short-rushing. Delphi shows 3 vets, 2 regs, all injured. Lose 2 knights redlining injured hoplites.

    I've left some workers unmoved - I wasn't sure what to do with them. Some workers are roading and mining mountains, since we need to walk through them and we are working several of them. However, I think it would be a good idea to set a bunch of workers planting and chopping near our Greek towns so as to reduce their population. Naturally I didn't think of this until now, though.

    The only visible galley with units is the one near Khabarovsk. I think there is another one in the fog, though. Each has been unloading a single hoplite.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Got it, but something came up and I won't be able to play before next week.

    I really like the idea of chopping resistors into slaves.
    Without a navy, are we planning on sueing for peace once the Greeks are off the continent? I could build a handful of galleys relatively quickly and maybe next set we could be taking those island towns.
    Other than that I'll get ready to DoW the Russians once the Greeks are gone. We'll probably need to take several towns on turn 1 to minimize counterattack losses.
     
  14. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    Since we aren't going to gift backwards civs into the next age to get their free techs, I'm inclined to say we wipe them out. I'd rush a couple of boats in a newly planted coastal town and attack the islands soon, maybe in your turnset. I didn't leave you much cash, though, so you may need to take a turn or so to acquire some.

    Russia is now at war with the Byzantines, so most of their army should be far away from us when we declare. I don't expect a big counter-attack, but having a sufficiently large military all located appropriately sounds great.
     
  15. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Lux rate can get dropped by 10%, unless we get more WW, I can use that extra cash for the galleys. (Maybe drop the sci slider too?)

    Also, Evora can be made into a 1T worker pump. Utilizing this for even just a handful of turns leading up to steam power would help speed up research in the early IA, and then we could join the workers back after rails are in.
    Lastly, I could start a Magellan's pre build in Guim, I think that'd be a decent choice, unless we want to wait a little longer before starting one.
     
  16. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,488
    Sounds good to me.
     
  17. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    Turn 0, 400 AD:
    Drop lux, keep tax @20% so I can rush some carracks
    move around some citizens to increase growth in guim and swap it to a prebuild for magellan's
    swap sao paulo to a carrack
    trade deal with the koreans ends next turn

    IBT:
    ...

    Turn 1, 410 AD:
    Lisbon: knight>knight
    Oporto: knight>knight
    sagres: knight>carrack
    Leiria: knight>knight

    WW hits and we lose our income from korea.
    Trade korea chivalry for 7g and 39gpt
    Turn around and trade edu to korea for an additional 17 gpt to stop our hemmoraging
    byz will also trade us gpt for astro, as will the babs (at war), but we still have a monopoly on astro, so I'll wait until another civ researches it before trading it around
    To keep Emerita's citizens at work it have to adjust to sliders to 50/50 sci/lux. Navigation in 14T, treasury: 63g@+11gpt

    Found Badajoz: CourtHouse

    Siege of Delphi:
    trebs go 4/10
    Lose a vKnight injuring a vhop. I wait.

    IBT:
    Greeks drop a rhop at lisbon
    Luanda grows, putting more pressure on Faro

    Turn 2, 420 AD:
    Braga: knight>aqueduct

    Siege of Delphi:
    trebs go 5/10
    knights go 2-1, defeating 2 hoplites

    IBT:
    Byz/Germans now at peace
    Greeks land 2 LBM at Lisbon

    Turn 3, 430 AD:
    Found Lourenco Marques in the plains between Mycenae and Faro
    LM: Library

    Defeat Greek landers

    Siege of Delphi:
    trebs go 3/12
    We're low on attackers so I wait

    IBT:

    Turn 4, 440 AD:
    Guarda riots. Gaining 1 more CPT fixes this

    Siege of Delphi:
    trebs go 5/12
    score 4 wins and a retreat with knights and we take the city!
    It's size 11 with 10 resistors, and we capture 2 slaves and a catapult

    IBT:
    Athens flips
    Argos flips

    Turn 5, 450 AD:
    sagres: carrack>knight
    rio: knight>knight

    move units to retake both cities
    IBT:

    Turn 6, 460 AD:
    Lisbon: knight>knight

    Siege of Argos:
    knights go 2-2 with 2 elite victories, city is size 9 with 7 resistors

    IBT:

    Turn 7, 470 AD:
    Evora: University>settler

    Siege of Athens:
    trebs go 6/12
    knights go 3-0 with a retreat and an elite MDI retakes the city
    size 8 with 8 resistors

    Astro gets learned by ottos, babs, greeks and byz, so I trade Astro to the Koreans for Printing Press and 7g
    Rush last few shields on carrack in Sao Paulo

    IBT:
    Ottos want peace. I decline, not worth risking losing our WH, and we can trade for more luxes in 7 turns (Navigation)
    Ottos start Cop's

    Turn 8, 480 AD:
    Oporto: Knight>knight
    Sao Paulo: Carrack>knight
    Leiria: Knight>knight

    IBT:

    Turn 9, 490 AD:
    Evora: settler>settler
    Coimbra: knight>knight

    Upgrade captured cat to treb
    Stack arrives at Herakleia
    People learn Music Theory

    IBT:
    Greek LBM loses to our eMDI at Hera
    Greeks land a hop and LBM at Lisbon
    Athens flips
    Argos flips

    Turn 10, 500 AD:
    Lagos: Courthouse>knight
    one treb hits at lisbon, and a MDI and knight defeat the invaders
    Attack Argos with local MDI to try to get lucky, but he loses

    Siege of Herakleia:
    trebs go 6/12
    knights win 3 with 1 retreat
    I attack the fourth (and maybe last) 2/4 vHop with an eHorse, and the horse loses after injuring the hop further

    Notes:
    When Guim grows next turn, the citizen can get taken off the lake and moved to the coast. Coimbra can then stop working either the northern BG, giving it to Guim, or the southern BG, giving it to Lagos. Lagos can also work the lake, but has a harbor so it's not worth as much there.
    Evora is also borrowing the hill horse from Lisbon, and after they finish their builds next turn, should be swapped back.
    Evora's configuration as a worker pump:
    evora worker pump.png
    (I realize that tile isn't the BG)
    Gaining shields from the hill on growth. The 7th shield is corrupt, and we'll produce 11 at size 5. Size 6 might be better since it already has a university, and Evora could work one BG and two regular grasslands.
    The worker team planting on the tundra can work to irrigate the second cow (needs a chain from evora) while producing some more settlers to shrink.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    tjs282 likes this.
  18. Dwarven Zerker

    Dwarven Zerker Just one more turn Honey!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    186
    Location:
    Colorado
    /delurk

    Why doesn't Evora have a granary if it has an aqueduct?

    Not enough time to fit one in the build?, Too food rich?

    /relurk
     
  19. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    TBH I thought it had one. Probably didn't get one built because it needed an aqueduct for growth. It will need one to function as a 1 turn worker pump.
     
  20. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    W-S, NC
    @Dwarven Zerker, it was a rule-of-thumb introduced to me by @tjs282 : any town not on fresh water (ie needs an aqueduct) doesn't get a granary 'early'. A good example of an exception would be this case, although, before using Evora as a worker pump, a granary wasn't missed.
     

Share This Page