Jean-Marie Le Pen - 17.4% !!!

[Panda]

Originally posted by Adebisi
No, most Western countries most certainly dont have a Le Pen.

I agree with that. And Le Pen is by far the most hard-core right extremist of those politians mentioned in this thread.

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
No, that means france has a population of 59 million.
19% is almost a fifth. 12 million is a fifth of 60 million.
Dont argue with me, I'm in top class in math

Some class you're in

Of the ~60 million people in France, 1/3 is barred from the polls for being underage or of foreign nationality.

Of the ~40 million allowed to vote, 28% chose not to use that vote.

Of those 72% that did vote, 19% cast their vote for Le Pen,

equalling ~5,472,000 people votes.

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
Again accusations with no proof, something the europeans like a lot. They seem to ignore 'Innocent untill proven guilty' in democracy.

That is quite amusing coming from you.

Accusations with no proof like your accurate and truthful description of the French presidential elections in this thread?

Innocent until prooven guilty? Is this the same person who in previous Middle East threads defended Israel's policy of torturing prisoners to squeeze out information? Innocent until prooven guilty means in Western Europe an impartial trial to find out whether you are guilty or not of the accusations brought before you, but apparently you and / or Israel seems to have a different point of view on this.

Just like 'collateral damage' happens, and if it has happened before and in an greater extent it's ok if we practice it, yes?
(In case your 'memory fails you' again, that was your defense for the massacre in Shatila Sharon was found responsible for.)

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by Panda


I agree with that. And Le Pen is by far the most hard-core right extremist of those politians mentioned in this thread.

>>> I never said every country has a le pen, I just said almost every country has a nationalist movement.

Some class you're in

Of the ~60 million people in France, 1/3 is barred from the polls for being underage or of foreign nationality.

Of the ~40 million allowed to vote, 28% chose not to use that vote.

Of those 72% that did vote, 19% cast their vote for Le Pen,

equalling ~5,472,000 people votes.

>> My math is just ok, but you need to read my post again.
Here is a fraction from it:
"anyhow, today 19% of Israel are non-jewish and with full rights.
That's equivalent to almost 12 million french. "
Obviously I meant the non-jewish population and not the voters for extremist movements.
Anyway thats minor, why do you start an arguement before re-reading my post?

Accusations with no proof like your accurate and truthful description of the French presidential elections in this thread?
>>> Huh? What accusations are you talking about?

Innocent until prooven guilty? Is this the same person who in previous Middle East threads defended Israel's policy of torturing prisoners to squeeze out information? Innocent until prooven guilty means in Western Europe an impartial trial to find out whether you are guilty or not of the accusations brought before you, but apparently you and / or Israel seems to have a different point of view on this.
>>> Someone who carreis a dynamite belt on him is immediately guilty.

Just like 'collateral damage' happens, and if it has happened before and in an greater extent it's ok if we practice it, yes?
(In case your 'memory fails you' again, that was your defense for the massacre in Shatila Sharon was found responsible for.)
>>> the IDF was found indirectly responsible for it and sharon had to resign as the head of the IDF (defense minister).
there is no proof, no documentation linking sharon with direct responsobility to the massacre.

 

[amadeus]

I don't know why people bother taking the United Nations seriously...

Anyone remember the invasion of Grenada?

 

[Sixchan]

>>> Someone who carreis a dynamite belt on him is immediately guilty.

So is someone who fires live rounds above the head of a neutral Scottish politician, and then throws him onto a make-shift barricade of burnt-out cars, While tearing my country's flag to pieces!

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by Sixchan


So is someone who fires live rounds above the head of a neutral Scottish politician, and then throws him onto a make-shift barricade of burnt-out cars, While tearing my country's flag to pieces!

Talking about merging threads
Anyhow, I didn't see it mentioned anywhere except for where you told me and I searched.
I'm sure that if it did happen the IDF will have an inside investigation and usual and the soldiers will be punished...
But I'm not even sure what happened.
So far out of all news sites I regulary visit none mentioned a thing about it - and some of them are usually aware for anything that might put Israel in a bad light.
Let's just wait for developments (On your page they said they will file an official complaint based on a video) and see.

EDIT: I found this on BBC.

However, Mr Seaman said: "He should respect the laws and instructions of a foreign country, especially when he is a visitor, and he apparently didn't do that.

'Not playing games'

"He showed absolute disregard for the state of Israel and its sovereignty," he said.

"The fact that he wasn't shot at and killed, which would have been done in any other country in the world, he's sort of exaggerating in his description."

Mr Seaman said Mr Quinan had not arranged the meeting in advance with the Israeli authorities and stressed: "We're not playing games.

"He's not coming to a carnival, he's coming to a war zone, and a war zone where it is declared that Arafat is off-limits to everybody."

Seems to me like they tried to enter arafats compound (which is under siege by the IDF...) with no authorization.
He said:

However, Mr Quinan said he did not believe he needed to ask the Israelis' permission to enter Palestinian areas.

It is an unfortunate incident though.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/scotland/newsid_1944000/1944386.stm

I don't know about the flag and all, seems to me like he did over react. Maybe he didn't, who knows.

 

[MCdread]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
Someone who carreis a dynamite belt on him is immediately guilty.

Did all the people who were killed in the past weeks carry a dynamite belt?...

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by SuperR


I hope you'll not be shocked if I tell you that your views are not popular anywhere in the world where democracy prevails, a concept you seem to defend by supporting anti-democratic ideologies...

Extreme ideologies, may they be far in the left or in the right, are outdated, undemocratic and unapplicable to a society without witnessing evident flaws on the political, economical, and social level.

I certainly do not support Le Pen/Haider/any over-nationalistic view, and I cannot understand why there was so much abstentions in the French elections. In my opinion, unfair treatment of immigrants preached by Le Pen will only give them (the immigrants, the poor, whatever) a reason to include terrorism as a solution to settle the problem in their own perspective.

It is simply TOO radical. Therefore, these people should not go through with a state's power and should never to. IT's a shame the Apartheid lasted that long, and "common sense", as S. Darkshade put it, is NOT to alienate minorities, but on the contrary, to put them in the mix, whether by assimilation/melting pot (like Germany, US to an extent), or by multicultural approach (ex: Canada). Note that both are more acceptable than saying "La France aux francais" or these kinda things.

1.) You keep clinging to democracy as if it were a good thing, and brandishing it at me as some sort of burning reproach. It has as much impact as a single suicidal plankton headbutting a blue whale. Me = not democracy. Me = evil fascist
And there is a definite move towards the right happening, with people displeased and disillusioned with the state and direction of the world at the moment.

2.) Time will tell the truth of the matter, and we will triumph. Heil myself!

3.)I kind of figured that you did not support him, but thank you for adding that point anyway. If they try terrorism, then there is one treatment available for them :slay: And Le Pen is not against the poor; many voted for him...
He is for his own country, but common sense and patriotism seem to be considered 'out dated concepts' by some...

4.) You call Le Pen radical? He is somewhat of a moderate as far as denizens of the far right wing go. At the very least, an assimilation approach is far preferable to the divisive effects of multi-culturalism.

 

[Sixchan]

Extreme ideologies, may they be far in the left or in the right, are outdated, undemocratic and unapplicable to a society without witnessing evident flaws on the political, economical, and social level.

2.) Time will tell the truth of the matter, and we will triumph. Heil myself!

Jawohl! Heil Darkshade, mein Furhur!

 

[Ozz]

Democracy in Action, The socialists are the calling it a mistake
because they lost. I am sure that the people who voted for
Le Pen are quite happy. Regardless, the people have spoken.
(or those people who wished to speak did.)

 

[SuperR]

Nevertheless, I saw several articles where they made on-the-street interviews and a lot of people that voted for Le Pen said that they were tired of the system, but did not vote for him because they fully endorsed the system. In any case, the French society seems in profound trouble if they need to vote en masse for a "radical" just to shake things up.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by SuperR
Nevertheless, I saw several articles where they made on-the-street interviews and a lot of people that voted for Le Pen said that they were tired of the system, but did not vote for him because they fully endorsed the system. In any case, the French society seems in profound trouble if they need to vote en masse for a "radical" just to shake things up.

Sometimes you need to slap someone in the face to get their attention.

 

[VoodooAce]

Gee, he may be evil, but he has some good ideas I agree with.

Triumph of the right? Try triumph for evil.

I don't care how many good ideas you have, if you like or vote for an evil racist, anti-semitic Hitler wannabe like this Jean Marie, you are still supporting evil.

Extremists like this guy, and anyone who would support him, make my puke.

The time for animals like this guy has come and gone. He's going nowhere as are those like him. Thank goodness.

 

[Switch625]

Originally posted by VoodooAce
The time for animals like this guy has come and gone. He's going nowhere as are those like him. Thank goodness.

Evil never goes out of style.

Don't be so dismissive. There will always be people like Le Pen (or Pat Buchanan, to name a local), and there will always be people who support them. If you don't want them to get into power, you must oppose them. Ignoring the issue doesn't make it go away.

 

[Greadius]

And oppose their ideas with better arguements, not suppression. Extremists keep the rest of us in check because they remind us all how easily we could loose what our forefathers worked so hard to establish.

They also do a good job of focusing spotlights on issues mainstream politicians can be afraid to touch. From what I've heard, a lot of people who are against immigration are essentially afraid of the growing Muslim population and the 'baggage' that comes along with that. The series of anti-Semetic attacks in France could only have added to the fear. I'm guessing many of the people who voted for Le Pen were thinking the same thing that Guliani voters in New York were thinking when he was elected: I disagree with many of his ideas but I want to feel safe in the street again.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by VoodooAce
Gee, he may be evil, but he has some good ideas I agree with.

Triumph of the right? Try triumph for evil.

I don't care how many good ideas you have, if you like or vote for an evil racist, anti-semitic Hitler wannabe like this Jean Marie, you are still supporting evil.

Extremists like this guy, and anyone who would support him, make my puke.

The time for animals like this guy has come and gone. He's going nowhere as are those like him. Thank goodness.

Le Pen is not evil, he is good, righteous and correct, and has many great ideas.
This is a triumph not only for the right, but for right itself; for common sense, and for good over evil.
Exercising your democratic right to support the candidate who appeals the most to you is not supporting evil, it is doing a service for humanity.
Monseiur Le Pen is a most brave and excellent man, and certainly not an "evil Hitler wannabe".
The time for right and reason has come again, and the future is so bright, we are wearing shades. Thank goodness.


Extremism comes in all facets and from all directions. A simplistic, rhetorical attack invites a simplistic rhetorical response. Trying to rationalize an occurence is one thing; presupposing that you know better than the public is another.

 

[Damien]

Simon.
Do u vote for "One Nation" and are for a White Australia?

To my mind the state isn't important,the people are.

In france,when there's a problem,the contrary of the solution is done.

This situation is partly due to the lack of democracy n counter-power n the right and left wings call for an unique right-wing party n an unique left-wing party instead overhauling the system so that the score of each party at the legislative elections defines proportionally(unlike what's done in the current system) the number of sieges in the Parliament n that president comes from the majority.

 

[Simon Darkshade]

Originally posted by Damien
Simon.
Do u vote for "One Nation" and are for a White Australia?

To my mind the state isn't important,the people are.

In france,when there's a problem,the contrary of the solution is done.

This situation is partly due to the lack of democracy n counter-power n the right and left wings call for an unique right-wing party n an unique left-wing party instead overhauling the system so that the score of each party at the legislative elections defines proportionally(unlike what's done in the current system) the number of sieges in the Parliament n that president comes from the majority.

The post above was intended as a somewhat ironic mirror image of the left wing criticism presented by the wise and esteemed VoodooAce, rather than as direct and serious gospel.

No, I do not vote for One Nation, nor have I ever done so. They are a bunch of soft bleeding heart left wing communists. Ever heard of the ALP Right? We make the SS look like Amnesty International
And the White Australia policy is no longer on any platforms; I am for my own people and my own country - Australians and Australia.
To my mind, and aye, to my femur as well, the state is quite important, and people are there to serve the tea and be kicked down the stairs.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

http://www.satirewire.com/briefs/lepen.shtml

 

[Juize]

Originally posted by Simon Darkshade
(..)The misuse of these terms is a common mistake in the young and garbled.(..)

...says a 20-year old arrogant kid who dreams openly from a fascist empire?

Bah.[/flame mode]

It seems that the generations of 40's are starting to like 'values' as 'security' and
'anti-crime' (which means nationalism and jail overheating.
Soon, there'll be this kind of party in Finland too, I guess.

 

[Supernaut]

One thing people are ignoring on this thread (before it got off-topic and into Israeli bashing) is that the defintions of left and right wing are different in all countries. Chirac, the 'right wing' candidate in France is way to the left of Gore, whereas Le Pen, the 'extremist' would fit in (minus the holocaust denial) to the British Conservative (mainstream right wing) party. And some of his policies (described as 'repellent' by our Dear Leader Tony Blair) are not far removed from what our Labour party (centre-left) are proposing. Meanwhile, our Israeli friend can claim that Sharon is not a nationalist.

As Ray Davies once said, it's a mixed up, jumbled up shook upworld. But comments from politically naive Americans don't help. People should work out that the difference between liberal and authoritarian is as important as (if not more than) that between left and right