Jesse Jackson Jr. Blames The iPad For Killing Jobs

[Ajidica]

Investing in robotics leads to technological advancement and other high tech jobs, something we are good at. Outsourcing to the slums of east Beijing helps the ChiComs, and do you really want that?

 

[amadeus]

I already answered your question while you dodged mine.

You edited your post and answered it before I saw it.

Undocumented immigrants rarely take jobs that Americans actually want.

So here's how it works, according to you:

Foreigners take jobs for lower pay in the U.S.: not taking jobs away from Americans.
Foreigners take jobs for lower pay in other countries: taking jobs away from Americans.

Do you see the disconnect here? The only thing that has changed is where the work is being done. The American that supposedly loses his job to someone who is willing to accept less pay still loses their job.

As a sidebar: that you can't even bring yourself to call them illegal immigrants (in itself a bowdlerization of illegal aliens.) You must stay in good shape running on the euphemism treadmill all the time.

Do you think all incentives to keep jobs in the US and to make more good-paying manufacturing jobs are "make work", or not?

There's only two ways you can have the government "create incentives" - you either cut out foreign competitors by penalizing imports or investment abroad or you spend money on subsidies, money that would otherwise be spent on other productive enterprises anyway. Unless that money is coming from debt, in which case we just have to pray to God that the rate of return on the investment is greater than the rate of interest... and I don't trust the government to make smart investments, especially not the American government.

And no, I don't see any difference between your obviously partisan attacks and theirs.

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater

Investing in robotics leads to technological advancement and other high tech jobs, something we are good at. Outsourcing to the slums of east Beijing helps the ChiComs, and do you really want that?

Building robots without sufficient market demand takes time and money that could be spent by Americans to improve their livelihoods. Similarly, the jobs that will be provided in east Beijing will help the Chinese build better lives for themselves, too.

 

[Archbob]

Investing in robotics leads to technological advancement and other high tech jobs, something we are good at.

Yeah, but it sucks from the people who aren't smart enough to get high-tech jobs. That's what apple does anyways, it creates new tech jobs and gets rid of the old manufacturing ones.

 

[Ajidica]

Yeah, but it sucks from the people who aren't smart enough to get high-tech jobs. That's what apple does anyways, it creates new tech jobs and gets rid of the old manufacturing ones.

Does the number of new tech jobs they create equal the number of manufacturing job sent overseas?

 

[Archbob]

Does the number of new tech jobs they create equal the number of manufacturing job sent overseas?

No, but each one pays a lot more than the job that went overseas.

People who really have zero skills or training that can only do a job that any kid can learn in a day just are going to get left behind because they provide little value to any employer.

If like in natural evolution, if the environment changes and a species can't adapt, then what happens?

Same thing is happening now except from a societal point.

 

[Ajidica]

If like in natural evolution, if the environment changes and a species can't adapt, then what happens?

Same thing is happening now except from a societal point.

If the American school system is still letting you graduate while believing in social darwinism, we have a bigger problem then their failure to instill a proper work ethic.

 

[Archbob]

If the American school system is still letting you graduate while believing in social darwinism, we have a bigger problem then their failure to instill a proper work ethic.

Its not so much Social Darwinism and certainly not if you associate it with racism. It should be common sense that people who can't adapt to change get left behind. Thats been obvious for a long time now. Just because something is politically inconvenient doesn't mean its not true.

Its actually the school trying to preach too much that everyone is special and will be alright no matter what grades you get that is the problem in schools, not that we're teaching kids too harshly.

 

[Ajidica]

Its not so much Social Darwinism and certainly not if you associate it with racism. It should be common sense that people who can't adapt to change get left behind. Thats been obvious for a long time now. Just because something is politically inconvenient doesn't mean its not true.

If people aren't even given the option to adapt to the change because of a broken school system, it is hardly their fault.
You would agree that an understanding of basic Office programs is essential to get any job more advanced then cashier, correct? In poor school districts, where do they get the money to afford computer labs? While there will always be people who 'fail to adapt' in your words, the number of those people in America is growing and doesn't show any sign of slowing. All of the major job growth is in new tech areas, an area our schools are not set up to handle properly, especialy in poorer areas.

Its actually the school trying to preach too much that everyone is special and will be alright no matter what grades you get that is the problem in schools, not that we're teaching kids too harshly.

Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

 

[classical_hero]

Steve Jobs isn't dead yet!

Thank you very much.

Considering that the word "Jobs" is capitalised, it did get me thinking about that also. This thread is very much a disappointment.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Foreigners take jobs for lower pay in the U.S.: not taking jobs away from Americans.
Foreigners take jobs for lower pay in other countries: taking jobs away from Americans.

The part you are apparently deliberately ignoring is that they are obviously quite different jobs. Nobody legally in this country wants to pick fruit for minimum wage, much less for what the undocumented immigrants are willing to do it.

OTOH the continual loss of jobs to offshore workers that Americans do want is quite well-documented.

s a sidebar: that you can't even bring yourself to call them illegal immigrants (in itself a bowdlerization of illegal aliens.) You must stay in good shape running on the euphemism treadmill all the time.

You mean as a sidebar, you can't help but try to vilify them by insinuating they are criminals who should be persecuted to the full extent of the law, instead of even trying to blame all the major employers who exploit them and who are typically rich Republicans?

There's only two ways you can have the government "create incentives" - you either cut out foreign competitors by penalizing imports or investment abroad or you spend money on subsidies, money that would otherwise be spent on other productive enterprises anyway.

There are other ways. You can penalize US corporations for moving jobs offshore, and you can take away their current subsidies and tax incentives, which actually makes it even more attractive for them to do so.

Report: Offshore tax havens cost U.S. $100B

A look at the world's new corporate tax havens

You can also try to minimize and even destroy how corporate America now controls the government in this country, which is now effectively at their bidding no matter what they do, instead of pandering to them and supporting those who are trying to do just the opposite.

Don't you "see the disconnect" here? That the conservatives, especially the reactionary tea party ones, are promoting one thing while being opposed to it when "liberals" suggest exactly the same thing? That you and they apparently find no problem with pandering to corporations, which are engaging in such destructive practices to avoid paying any taxes at all, and at the same time giving them even more government subsidies and incentives for doing so?

"I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, and let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." - Barry Goldwater

Besides the fact that this quote really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, most conservatives apparently condone these "extremist" corporations that endanger our own fiscal "liberty". And at the same time they feel we must be "moderate" in dealing with corrupt government and corporations, which are deliberately screwing the middle class and destroying the general economy to get even richer.

If you want to be a minimalist-government-true-Republican from the past, the first thing you need to do is to stop pandering to corporate America merely because they support corrupt Republican congressmen more than they do Democrat ones. You need to make them, and the rich who mostly own them, pay their fair share of the expenses. You need to take away their incentives to employ Chinese to make their iPads and create the goods which fill their Wal-Marts, while deliberately turning the US into a lower-paying service-based economy instead of a higher-paying production-based one. You need to allow free enterprise to reign instead of artificially manipulated corporate greed.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist." - Dwight Eisenhower

But most of all, the more staunch conservatives need to stop responding to such overtly partisan strawmen as this OP. I am sure that both Barry Goldwater and Dwight Eisenhower would agree.

 

[amadeus]

The part you are apparently deliberately ignoring is that they are obviously quite different jobs. Nobody legally in this country wants to pick fruit for minimum wage, much less for what the undocumented immigrants are willing to do it.

Well, you're right but nobody here would want $.50/hr to make shoes, either.

OTOH the continual loss of jobs to offshore workers that Americans do want is quite well-documented.

But as I'm saying, do they want it enough to work for 10 hours a day in a sweatshop?

You mean as a sidebar, you can't help but try to vilify them by insinuating they are criminals who should be persecuted to the full extent of the law, instead of even trying to blame all the major employers who exploit them and who are typically rich Republicans?

Last part first: desperately needs citation. First part: they're here illegally.

There are other ways. You can penalize US corporations for moving jobs offshore, and you can take away their current subsidies and tax incentives, which actually makes it even more attractive for them to do so.

That gives foreign competitors an advantage because American corporations then have more tax liabilities.

You can also try to minimize and even destroy how corporate America now controls the government in this country, which is now effectively at their bidding no matter what they do, instead of pandering to them and supporting those who are trying to do just the opposite.

I agree. But big corporations and big government go hand-in-hand and making the government bigger isn't going to solve that problem.

Don't you "see the disconnect" here? That the conservatives, especially the reactionary tea party ones, are promoting one thing while being opposed to it when "liberals" suggest exactly the same thing? That you and they apparently find no problem with pandering to corporations, which are engaging in such destructive practices to avoid paying any taxes at all, and at the same time giving them even more government subsidies and incentives for doing so?

Not following you here... how am I for government handouts to corporations?

Besides the fact that this quote really has nothing to do with the topic at hand, most conservatives apparently condone these "extremist" corporations that endanger our own fiscal "liberty". And at the same time they feel we must be "moderate" in dealing with corrupt government and corporations, which are deliberately screwing the middle class and destroying the general economy to get even richer.

Agreed. We have socialism for the rich (and even more socialism for the poor...)

If you want to be a minimalist-government-true-Republican from the past, the first thing you need to do is to stop pandering to corporate America merely because they support corrupt Republican congressmen more than they do Democrat ones.

For every Koch there's a Soros.

You need to make them, and the rich who mostly own them, pay their fair share of the expenses. You need to take away their incentives to employ Chinese to make their iPads and create the goods which fill their Wal-Marts, while deliberately turning the US into a lower-paying service-based economy instead of a higher-paying production-based one. You need to allow free enterprise to reign instead of artificially manipulated corporate greed.

The only thing artificial in the marketplace is government intervention and you already know I'm opposed to that.

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist." - Dwight Eisenhower

But most of all, the more staunch conservatives need to stop responding to such overtly partisan strawmen as this OP. I am sure that both Barry Goldwater and Dwight Eisenhower would agree.

Eisenhower's quote had as much to do with expansive government power as it did expansive concentration of industrial power.

 

[GamezRule]

I blame capitalism for the loss of American jobs. Unrestricted overseas capitalism.

 

[GoodGame]

I blame capitalism for the loss of American jobs. Unrestricted overseas capitalism.

This is probably the most honest and accurate response. Though really it's capitalism that can create jobs regardless of nationality.

I'd say the whole thread is really about envy in a time of unemployment.

Envy that some other nation gains jobs from an American company.

The solution is obviously not to force the American company to produce domestically, though that might reduce some envy. It's to get more American companies started, and get more Americans educated to starting those companies.

 

[Archbob]

If people aren't even given the option to adapt to the change because of a broken school system, it is hardly their fault.
You would agree that an understanding of basic Office programs is essential to get any job more advanced then cashier, correct? In poor school districts, where do they get the money to afford computer labs? While there will always be people who 'fail to adapt' in your words, the number of those people in America is growing and doesn't show any sign of slowing. All of the major job growth is in new tech areas, an area our schools are not set up to handle properly, especialy in poorer areas.

I would say there are at least a third or more people who are just not capable of the science and math skills required for these new jobs. There are very few things you can do to solve this problem. Some people just suck at math and science and will have to compete for the increasingly small number of jobs that don't require it.

 

[Mallipeep]

Goverments need to start to realise that efficiency&productivity has, and will be growing faster then demand for new services and start enforcing shorter workdays/workweeks.

The economy - especcially the industries that have trouble to find employees - might have to adjust, but in the long run - its the only way.

 

[Formaldehyde]

But as I'm saying, do they want it enough to work for 10 hours a day in a sweatshop?

Why should they? Do you consider that to be fair and equitable working conditions? Are you advocating a return to child labor and sweatshops? Or do you think people should simply pay a few dollars more for their clothes and produce?

Last part first: desperately needs citation. First part: they're here illegally

Who do you think is exploiting them? The middle class?

And those who exploit them for their own financial gain are even far greater criminals. Why aren't you vociferously complaining about them as well?

How big of a "crime" is it to sneak across a border so you can get exploited by some rich guy while living your life in constant fear that you will be caught? Knowing that if you are even suspected of committing a real crime that you will be jailed and deported?

Not following you here... how am I for government handouts to corporations?

You certainly don't seem to be too opposed to it, since you apparently support those who do just that.

Eisenhower's quote had as much to do with expansive government power as it did expansive concentration of industrial power.

That is right. It is the same problem. You can't complain about one while apparently pretending the other problem doesn't even exist.

 

[JollyRoger]

Curious: do you believe illegal immigrants take jobs from law-abiding Americans?

No, they take them from law-breaking Americans. You can't give an illegal a job without breaking the law yourself.