Jet fighters and Stealth bombers are too late in game

[Ramboost]

Am I the only one who thinks that jet fighters and stealth bombers are available too late in the game? I have now finished 5 Civ 4 games, and I have not even once built any jet fighters and stealth bombers.

Whenever a game lasts to the modern era, the game tends to narrow into a race towards the Space Victory (or a time victory if the tech rate has been slow). I cannot afford to lose a single turn on the wrong technology if I want to be a part of the Space Race. The jet fighters and stealth bombers are are available so late, that the time frame in which uoy can use them is very limited.

I Civ 3 I loved to built a HUGE fleet/airforce and liked to play Superpower with my Carriers, jet fighters and bombers. But I feel that this enjoyment is lost in Civ 4 - which is otherwise a far better game than Civ 3

The only option (without modding), as I see it, is to disable Space Race victory........and I wouldn't like that either, as I like to have as many different ways to win as possible.

Just my thoughts on this...........do you feel the same way or am I missing something?

 

[aotearoa]

Yeah, I completely agree...

I also liked to have LOTS of bombers/fighters in civ 3 bombing the hell out of everybody. I couldn’t do that in civ 4…so after a couple of games I switched back to civ 3.
Overall I am not able to have the huge wars I usually like to have in c3c, so, at least for now, bye bye civ 4…
(OK, maybe it's my fault, I didn't try hard enough )

 

[vinstafresh]

In Civ3 I never got to the modern era out of sheer boredom of micromanaging all my cities, so I haven't built them anyway But I agree, the techs are focussed on space race at that stage in the game, unless you're way ahead of the pack and are postponing crushing the opponents in order to do it in style.

 

[SexyBecky]

Or the solution - turn the space race off.

 

[Smokey McDope]

Turning the space race off is like a free win, since this is the only chance the AI has really. They can't follow any of the other victories efffectively.

 

[Artanis]

Jet Fighters and Stealth Bombers are really only useful if you're going for a military victory. If you're going Space Race, then of course you won't see them

Since I typically go for a Domination victory though, by the time the Space Race starts, my Knights, Cossacks, and Tanks have already gotten me enough prime cities to virtually guarantee that I'll win it if I choose to do so. Wanting to slaughter the AI instead, I usually prioritize Composites (to add Modern Armor to my ever-more-distant battle fronts) by way of Flight, leaving me with plenty of Fighters to upgrade into Jet Fighters. Sooner or later, I'll head for Robotics so that I can defend my conquests with Mechanized Infantry, letting me upgrade my swarms of Bombers into those of the Stealth variety.

Seeing two dozen Stealth Bombers absolutely flatten a 40-unit capital garrison is a thing of beauty, I tells ya!

 

[BirraImperial]

Turning the space race off is like a free win, since this is the only chance the AI has really. They can't follow any of the other victories efffectively.

I agree. This is one of the mayor turn-offs in this game.

 

[ozza000]

Lol well I turn Space Race Off and have seen the AI win domination victory so your obviously playing a low level. Okay I am not sure if the AI can conquest the world, but I've seen it win domination, diplomatic, time, cultural and of course space race in Civ 4. The only win I've not seen is conquest, it can win probably any variable you make it have to.

 

[Picky1999]

I think you seriously need to consider getting alot more efficent at managing your time, your science, and your tech advances if you think jets and stealth come too late the game. It makes the more competitive in that youa ctually have to work at it to take advantage of the advantages these units offer.

Along with Modern Armor, these items are at the top of the unit feeding chain and by necessity need to be hard to get to get because they are so powerful. If another civ doesn't have air power, or mechanized infantry, you can more or elss roll over them with 6-8 Modern Armor, a carrier of jets, and a few Stealth bombers. That's not what I consider a competitive game if you're blowing up knights with a Stealth. If they came in any earlier, that's all you'd see.

I usually get them ...give or take...around 1920 or so on Noble-Epic (I'm not that good so I don't even try to go higher...) setting. That's 130 years or so to play around with them.

In Civ3, I'd roam around the map with carriers full of jets, looking for someone decent to pick a fight with and coming up empty. (I'm partial though...I'm an old school Civ 1-2 fan and hated Civ3...)

Try playing with more Civs to trade techs with, amp up your science and skip over obsolete units, beeline not just to Flight but also to Composites, and play on Epic. I ralrely got to see Stealth until I switched to Epic.

oh and big yes to what Artanis said. follow his advice.

 

[emills]

Jet Fighters and Stealth Bombers are timed so that you get them during the space race. I would say they are there for you to prevent the AI from winning the space race. The best way to stop an opponent from winining via a space race is to go to war. With all the advanced tech units floating around, the stealth bomber blowing up tile improvements is key.

 

[BirraImperial]

Lol well I turn Space Race Off and have seen the AI win domination victory so your obviously playing a low level. Okay I am not sure if the AI can conquest the world, but I've seen it win domination, diplomatic, time, cultural and of course space race in Civ 4. The only win I've not seen is conquest, it can win probably any variable you make it have to.

Yes, IF you turn Space Race off. Otherwise the AI will go for the Space Race victory 100% of the time.

 

[Ramboost]

I usually get them ...give or take...around 1920 or so on Noble-Epic (I'm not that good so I don't even try to go higher...) setting. That's 130 years or so to play around with them.

I play Prince/Marathon/Huge map, and I guess I could get them around the same time (1900). But the problem, as I see it, is not that you get them late. The problem is that when you have to decide to follow the Jet fighter/Stealth bomber tech path, all other advanced civs are going for space race. And that where you miss important steps in that race. As I see it, the only solution is to disable Space Race.........but thats a trade off because it not entirely a good thing in my opinion.

Try playing with more Civs to trade techs with, amp up your science and skip over obsolete units, beeline not just to Flight but also to Composites, and play on Epic. I ralrely got to see Stealth until I switched to Epic.

As I almost always play on Marathon (Epic before the patch)/Huge map with 18 civs the Tech trade is widespread..........

I guess my problem is, that I want it all..............prioritizing is exacerated

 

[cabert]

the problem, as I see it, is not that you get them late. The problem is that when you have to decide to follow the Jet fighter/Stealth bomber tech path, all other advanced civs are going for space race. And that where you miss important steps in that race. As I see it, the only solution is to disable Space Race.........but thats a trade off because it not entirely a good thing in my opinion.

You entirely miss the point.
It's not "the computer goes on space race so i must go on space race with jets/bombers"
It's "the computer goes on space race, and i go for domination/conquest with jets/bombers"
read again what emills said, stealth will allow you to stop or at least slow down the computers' space race, allowing you to do for him . (If he doesn't come for you !)

As I almost always play on Marathon (Epic before the patch)/Huge map with 18 civs the Tech trade is widespread..........

I guess my problem is, that I want it all..............prioritizing is exacerated

 

[Ramboost]

You entirely miss the point.
It's not "the computer goes on space race so i must go on space race with jets/bombers"
It's "the computer goes on space race, and i go for domination/conquest with jets/bombers"
read again what emills said, stealth will allow you to stop or at least slow down the computers' space race, allowing you to do for him . (If he doesn't come for you !)

I see what you (and emills) mean.

But I still think it is a darn shame that Jet Fighters and Stealth bombers comes so late in the game..............that's one of the few things I like better in Civ 3. I felt like I had the time to establish a superior defence/attack force and use my uber weapons........and just generally feel like a real superpower

But maybe I should just try a different apporach in the next game, and just head for Jet fighters and Stealth bombers and see how it works out.........

 

[Marshall Thomas]

If space victory is disabled, I suppose the AI would only have a shot at a score/time victory. I sometimes believe that perhaps the most interesting game would be one that is decided by score in 2050. It would allow plenty of time for modern military and on the harder difficulties the AI seems to have little problems keeping a high score. With space race disabled, would the AI still research late modern era technologies?

I'm tempted to try this out in my next game. Could anyone please offer me some thoughts on this type of victory conditions? Thanks

 

[lord_graywolfe]

Turning the space race off is like a free win, since this is the only chance the AI has really. They can't follow any of the other victories efffectively.

not at all. if you turn it off they will go for what ever victory conditions you have avalible and very effectivly at that. ive had them mop the floor with me and make domination victories. take diplomatic wins, culture wins and time wins. if you havnt been seeing these you need to play at a higher level.

as to the jet fighters and bombers. i have np with them, i have the older ones pulling duty untill i can get them and i go for composites as soon as i can as it also has the modren armor. even if your not a warmonger you want these units to help hold off other forces. they get very aggresive during UN voting for some reason lol.

 

[scu98rkr]

I dont think its nessarially true the computer goes for space race all the time. Just that you never see it do anything else.

Seeing as all the AI's are pretty similar its the starting position which normally determines which AI does best.

If the AI was going for a domination victory it would have to destroy several civilizations. Seeing as all the AI are pretty even the chances are one of thoose civilization would be you !

No one is going to play a level where the AI destroys/almost destroys them and stick around to see if it wins domination are they ?

Therefore a game which is played to the end is evariably closer and therefore the AI will aim for a space race victory, because it probably hasnt got enough culture.

 

[scu98rkr]

maybe the AI does need to head for the UN victory more often, maybe it does on higher levels i dont know.

 

[Marshall Thomas]

How do you think having score victory as the only condition enabled effect a huge map 18 civs campaign? I've only played with all victory conditions enabled, but now I'm considering having the campaign going to 2050. Going for a score victory is sort of a balanced condition since score reflects a variety of accomplishments. Would anyone offer some thoughts on this? Thanks

 

[BlizzardGR]

Yeah, they do come late in the game. But i don't find them that more usefull than the first-type planes.