Jewish Catacomb Predates Christian Ones

[Knight-Dragon]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721...s1vieAA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

ROME - A Jewish catacomb in Rome predates its Christian counterparts by at least 100 years, indicating burial in the city's sprawling underground cemeteries may not have begun as a Christian practice, according to a study published Wednesday.

Scholars have long believed that early Christians were the first to bury their dead in Roman catacombs. But Dutch experts from Utrecht University who dated organic material from a Jewish catacomb in the city say it appears that early Christians inherited the practice from Jews.

"Perhaps it doesn't clinch the argument, but it makes it very likely," said Leonard Victor Rutgers, an antiquities professor who led the university's team.

The findings, published in the journal Nature, would further illustrate links between early Christian culture and Judaism.

Radiocarbon dating showed the Villa Torlonia catacomb, a Jewish burial site, was constructed between the first century B.C. and the first century, long before any of Rome's 60 Christian catacombs, Rutgers said.

"The radiocarbon dating shows that it is very likely that the Jewish community in Rome developed the method and then the Christians copied it," Rutgers told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

Although ancient Latin texts place a Jewish community in Rome as early as the first century B.C., burial places like Villa Torlonia previously were thought to have been used only from the third century, roughly around the time Christians began using catacombs.

"So where and how did this ancient community bury its dead?" Rutgers said. "Now it seems likely that they used catacombs from the beginning."

Rutgers said that to confirm his findings, radiocarbon dating would have to be used on Christian catacombs as well, as those burials are usually dated by evaluating the style of the decoration and architecture used on the site.

Laura Supino, a Rome-based architect and expert in Jewish art and history not connected with the study, said several researchers have tried to push back the age of Jewish catacombs, but their theories were based more on conjecture than hard evidence.

She said carbon analysis could provide an interesting basis to date the burials, but cautioned that in antiquity, materials were often reused and it could be misleading to date a site using only this method.

Comparative studies of the Jewish and Christian catacombs also could help confirm the link between the two, Rutgers said.

"If you look at the layout of Villa Torlonia and compare it to the early Christian catacombs, the architecture is absolutely similar," he said. "The only difference is in the inscriptions and the iconography."

Christian catacombs are usually decorated with early Christian symbols like fish or doves and the interlacing Greek letters Chi and Rho, a monogram for the Greek word "Christos."

In contrast, frescoes of Jewish symbols — menorahs, palm leaves, the Ark of the Covenant — cover the dark tunnels under Villa Torlonia.

Rutgers said his research may provide further evidence of the influence Judaism had on early Christianity.

"The extent to which Christianity has Jewish roots is a very widespread debate today and this research adds a new element to the discussion," he said.

The study began two years ago, when Rutgers and his team collected samples of wood embedded in the stucco that covers the openings of many tombs in the catacomb, located under the city park that surrounds Villa Torlonia, where dictator Benito Mussolini lived for 20 years.

The lines of tombs and niches are cut into the sides of winding galleries dug in soft tufa stone to create one of six known Jewish catacombs in Rome.

Four of the ancient Jewish burial grounds in Rome have collapsed or were built over in past centuries, and unlike the more popular Christian catacombs, the other two are hard to visit. Visitors need a special permit from Rome's archaeological authorities to enter the Villa Torlonia galleries, and the other Jewish burial site is on the property of a private villa near the ancient Appian Way.

___

On the Net:

Nature, http://www.nature.com

 

[Warman17]

"The study began two years ago, when Rutgers and his team collected samples of wood embedded in the stucco that covers the openings of many tombs in the catacomb, located under the city park that surrounds Villa Torlonia, where dictator Benito Mussolini lived for 20 years."


HAHA

 

[Xen]

Haha? Mussolini was no hitler- Jews had long been accepted in Italian society with occasional disputes; while its true Italy was the first to establish the Ghettos, and, sadlly the last to abolish them, the fact that thier were Jews in the Italian fascst party shoudl say somthing to you; that Italian jewry was spared much of the holocast because of this should not be lost on you either.

 

[Xen]

to note, thier has also been a loger continuous population of practioners of the Jewish faith in Rome then thier has been in Jerusalem

 

[Warman17]

Just because I found the fact funny doesn't mean I didn't know Jews were part of Italian society. It's like saying they found a Greek catacomb underneath one of Caeser's homes. Doesn't mean greeks were persecuted and shunned by Roman society, just something I wouldn't expect.

 

[Companiero]

Jews were accepted in Italian society during the war?! Set your facts straight and preach that biased crap to others.

 

[Xen]

Jews were accepted in Italian society during the war?! Set your facts straight and preach that biased crap to others.

just because your own country may never have had a very good track record on the subject (not saying that it dose or dosent, i dont know about the former Yugoslav republics in this respect) but it hardley means all europe was constrained by the rasict mannerisms of the Nazis

-

Mussolini never stooped to the evil ways of the Nazis, for example, whilst he was dictator of Italy he never allowed the deportation of Jews to Hitler's extermination camps.

http://www.secondworldwar.co.uk/italians.html

-

After the north was occupied by the Germans in 1943, the Nazis wanted to deport Italian Jewry to death camps, but resistance from the Italian public and officials stymied their efforts. A gold ransom was extorted to stop the S.S. commanding officer in Rome from killing 200 Jews

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Rome.html#World War II

-(copy paste is disabled on this particuler website, detials the acceptence of those who practiced Judaism in Italy)
http://www.romanhomes.com/your_roman_vacation/quarters/jewish-quarter.htm

thier is a host of evidence that can be found corrabertaing my "claims" mainlly because what I'm saying is the truth; liek ever country in europe, sadlly enough, some areas of italy have acted disgracefully towards those who practice the Jewish faith; however, one only has to take a glance to see that Judaism had far more of a home in italy then it had by far in comparison to the rest of Europe.

 

[das]

just because your own country may never have had a very good track record on the subject (not saying that it dose or dosent, i dont know about the former Yugoslav republics in this respect) but it hardley means all europe was constrained by the rasict mannerisms of the Nazis

As far as I know, Macedonnia was one of the quieter places there. Apart from Greek complaints on the matters of nomenclature...

Facts - BEFORE Mussolini begun to appease Hitler, he was very pro-Jewish. That's the difference between Fascism and Nazism, incidentally. Later he had to begin to adopt some of Hitler's laws, etc, for the sake of better relations. De jure the Jews were just as opressed in Italy as in Germany before the Final Solution, de facto they were much better off because these said laws were not really enforced seriously and because the Italians generally disliked all German ideas Mussolini tried to introduce.

Back on topic, its an interesting coincidence that Jewish religion ALSO predates Christian one. Admittedly, I'm surprised over the exact dating, but not too much. Jews, being foreigners and very different ones at that, were rather likely to face some sort of social harassment, legal or not. Hence catacombs.

"The extent to which Christianity has Jewish roots is a very widespread debate today and this research adds a new element to the discussion," he said.

The thing about Christianity is that its actually radically-reformed Judaism which later also stole many ideas from Graeco-Roman, Celtic and Germannic cultures making itself much more acceptable then Judaism for Dark Age Europe.

 

[Plotinus]

As far as I was aware, it was never believed that the Christian catacombs predated the others. Catacombs were already used by both pagans and Jews as a cheap alternative to normal burial. In the second century, most Christians were fairly lower class and so many of them used the same method. They apparently invested the catacombs with additional religious significance, and so they came to use them far more, which is why the Christian catacombs came to be vastly more extensive than the others. But as far as I know, it was never thought that they also antedated all the others. So I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

 

[greekguy]

This doesn't suprise me in the least. Of course it predates the Christian one, because they stole the idea from us, just like they stole a ton of other ideas.