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JFD and Janboruta's Civilisations

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by JFD, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. AW Arcaeca

    AW Arcaeca Deus Vult

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    Historically doesn't make sense. From what I've gathered from my good friend Wikipedia, Prussia was a state from 1525 - 1947, and of that was only independent up to the 1860s, when Otto von Bismarck started the wars of German unifications. Beyond that point we can consider Prussia no longer as an independent entity but a subdivision of Germany.

    Now consider the leader JFD used (under which Prussia arguably achieved its high point) - Frederick II the Great ruled from 1740 to 1786... Even considering the last year of his reign and the first year of WWI, it's still not another 128 years until the Great War rolls around. As a rifleman replacement it makes perfect sense, but not really as a GWI UU.

    Now that said, I would have no objections to the Opolcheniye being switched to a GWI replacement as the last years of Czar Nicholas II's reign stretched into WWI, and so in fact in that case it would make more sense. But if JFD didn't switch it, I still wouldn't care because either way it's still a fantastic civ. :)

    *Eagerly awaits HRE update*
     
  2. Gyra Solune

    Gyra Solune King

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    Yeah I think a lot of those civs have rifleman replacements because...well, a lot of them are early modern civilizations that had key roles in the big wars of the 1800s. During that period of time infantry was pretty much the key role of difference, since horses were getting mauled by machine guns, and said machine guns were largely standardized. So it's the troop devisions specifically and the command thereof that are really military units of note for each of these states.
     
  3. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator

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    Yeah...the American Civil War demonstrated that infantry troops supplied with rifled-barrel weapons were more than a match for mounted troopers. And a significant fraction of the 'rifles' carried on both sides weren't rifled, they were still smooth-bore. Between the rifled cannon employed much more extensively and the presence of rifled-barrel infantry weapons, the 'deadly ground' between opposing formations really was far more deadly than in any previous wars. And this was before Gatling's innovation had ever been employed on a field of battle. (though I believe there were some early versions of it used in a small way). Little wonder that the last year or so in the Eastern Theatre of the American Civil War looks little different in photograghs from the front lines in Western Europe from 1914-1918.
     
  4. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Actually, the Imperial Guard is a Lancer replacement.

    I have my reasons for not being able to call it a Cuirassier, but I can't disclose them ;)

    I didn't include Austria's new colour scheme and icon in Hungary as it wasn't a necessary change within the mod.

    The HRE will be retaining its traditional UA, but the UUs will be slightly changed to accommodate conflicts with Venice.

    The original idea with the Opolcheniye being a Rifleman was a bit of a misguided understanding that the Russian Army of the day was quite outdated; so the idea was that by the time Lenin's Levy (a GWI replacement) comes around, you'd have a very large but outdated army to fight it. It was a subtle historical nod, but it turns out the idea that Russia was this monstrously backwards empire is not as true as I had thought. So I probably will change it to a Great War Infantry replacement.
     
  5. janboruta

    janboruta Artistriarch

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    The main one would be that if you used the current unit graphics and icon and only renamed it a Cuirassier, it would utterly, utterly wrong and I would have to very kindly point out the error in hope you would repair the damage you would do to space-time continuum. Most likely by making me do new art. :crazyeye:

    Opolcheniye works both as a Rifleman and GW Infantry. The icon refers to the coat and cap from the Napoleonic era, but the unit graphic is taken from a WW1 infantry unit pack, so either way it works. I find it good as it is now, but I recall that initially it was supposed to be a GW infantry, for the sake of Nicholas II being the Tsar during WW1.
     
  6. zwei833

    zwei833 HRE Mercenary

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    Actually I think it is a necessary change. I think you're following the principle of "the leader, the UU/UA/UB, the Civ Icon should be in the same era". And the original Austrian Icon is the coat of arms of the  modern Republik Österreich.
     
  7. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Thematically necessary, sure. It's a moral abomination to me to have a republican icon on a monarchical civ. But there are many cases where there are thematic and historical inconsistencies (Napoleon's map is full of republican symbols!). I don't make changes to vanilla civs within my mods unless that is the subject of the mod, or it is predicated by absolute necessity (such as where a unique unit or building is moved over to a modded civ). The only thing that would warrant a new icon would be if another civ had taken Austria's colours; which was originally the case for Switzerland.
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Imperator

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    Yeah, this.

    Recent scholarship has unearthed documents pertaining to the discussions in the German and Austrian 'High Command' inner circles wherein they were predicting that the Russian Army would be so fully modernized (in terms of training and organization) and re-equipped to a modern standard by approx 1916 that Germany would have no reasonable expectations of a victory should events come to a war starting in 1916 or afterwards. This was an assessment made during the summer 1914 crisis. So one conclusion that contributed to the War (according to G.J. Meyer) was that Germany needed to make war then before Russia was able to modernize its massive army. (And it really was massive compared to every other European or semi-European nation). The notion within Germany and other European nations that war was inevitable from the 1914 perspective sometime within the next decade also helped to create a feeling that there was no better time than the present.

    And this leaves aside the various stupidities going on within the Austrian-Hungarian National High Command(s).
     
  9. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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  10. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Does this mean the carabinier will become an infantry replacement?
     
  11. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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  12. Maklohi Vai

    Maklohi Vai Warlord

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    Hi there, I just joined the forum and I'm big fan of your work. Norway is my favorite modded civ to play with, and I've enjoyed my games with Switzerland and the Papal State, among others, quite a bit as well.

    Have you considered doing European countries/civs that only gained independence in the past century but nonetheless have a distinct character? I'm thinking particularly of Iceland (excluding the 388 years from settling to the Old Covenant) and Finland.
     
  13. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Well, that's certainly good to hear.

    I'm generally disinterested in potential civs that don't have a strong, monarchical history or figure to lead them. So I wouldn't consider doing Finland or a modern Iceland, really. Of course, if it's nordic civs you're interested in, then I'm sure you'll be interested in what more I have to offer in the future ;)
     
  14. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    More Nordic civs from my favorite modder? :crazyeye: I must be in heaven! :lol:
     
  15. zwei833

    zwei833 HRE Mercenary

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    Glad to hear this :clap:
    What about the Kalmar union? Or the late medieval/Renaissance era Denmark-Norway Kingdom? I don't like the Denmark civ in Civ5 which is design in the dark age viking style and wonder a later era denmark civ.
     
  16. Maklohi Vai

    Maklohi Vai Warlord

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    Thanks for replying so specifically; it's good to know what you're thinking about. I certainly am interested in other Nordic civs. In particular, a new Kalmar Union civ, and/or a Denmark redesign, would be prime targets in my mind.
     
  17. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Viregel has taken up the Kalmar Union, so I've taken up Denmark-Norway; which'll dually serve as a more respective Danish civ (the continual portrayal as Vikings is fine and all, but such a blatant cashcow; this is the most solid Kingdom in the history of Europe, after all, and deserves some further development in the game) and as a home for the Norwegian Ski Infantry (which, if you're using my Norway mod, is completely depreciated).

    The other UU is a Great Admiral, but Janboruta and I have been having some trouble finding an appropriate and unique name. The closest is a generic "Great Commander," is which dissatisfying, to say the least. So if any Nordic experts out there have any suggestions, they'd be most appreciated :)
     
  18. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    There was some discussion of a later Norway as well (under Haakon VII, if I recall correctly). Though there's limited icons to use, and it may be hard to get unique stuff in, though it's something that JFD should take up anyway. Just saying.

    (I could take it up, but JFD would do it so much better. As long as there's oil, fjords and ÆØÅ, I'm happy.)
     
  19. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Great! I'm definately looking forward to both the Kalmar Union and Denmark-Norway! Now I wonder if mining is referenced in any way (as Norway provided the union with such materials, IE Norway's most famous silver mine, in Kongsberg, was made back then, in which was found rare forms of the element) and who's going to be the leader (Christian IV?). Also anticipating references to the reformation, and Peter Wessel Tordenskiold as a Great Admiral :)

    As for name for the admiral; I don't know, the Norwegian and Danish names for admiral are, well, admiral. :p

    And also, who's doing the Suedo-Norwegian union? :p
     
  20. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Oh yes, I would love this to happen (MAKE IT HAPPEN) :lol:

    EDIT: Also, yes, Haakon VII would be a great leader for a modern Norway civ. As for uniques, perhaps something tied to WW2.
     

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