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JFD and Janboruta's Civilisations

Discussion in 'Civ5 - New Civilizations' started by JFD, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Eh, it would rather be for... an Egypt split (if that ever happens).

    Well that's efficiency.

    I guess that might be my fault. I love the middle ages.
     
  2. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    I agree, to many civs that occupy the same ingame time period will make uniques and city lists tough, if nothing else. But more generally, I think its better for flavour to have some variation in the time period.

    That said, I disagree with hatsheputs Egypt, it would seem really out of place and we currently have an ancient Egyptian civ that is 'un-split', so there isn't really much to do for an ancient civ, Muhammads Ummah could be classical at a push, but it would be a tough one to do appropriately. One could always do a Bedouin civ which fits ancient or classical, and that could have a really interesting, unique UA, but I'm not sure they've done enough to warrant a civ.
     
  3. m00s3yliam

    m00s3yliam King Tut Admirer

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    Hatsheput's Egypt would be ok.
     
  4. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Here's my idea for it.

    Civ: The Umma

    Leader: Muhammad

    UA: (Tribe of Faith) Cannot gain Settlers. May expend large amounts of :c5faith: Faith to add City-States you could demand a tribute from to the empire, converting several :c5citizen: Citizens to your state religion. Former City-States do not suffer :c5angry: Unhappiness from population. All melee units recieve a promotion granting them a combat bonus against cities following a pantheon belief or without a major religion.

    UU: (Ansar) Replaces Swordsman. Recieves :c5faith: Faith from attacking cities and plundering trade routes.

    UU: (Muhajir) Replaces Great Prophet. When stationed in a city in resistance it lowers the turns of resistance to 1. Also eliminates :c5angry: Unhappiness from occupation if stationed in an annexed city without a Courthouse. Provides a combat bonus to melee units within one hex.

    Capital: Medina

    I don't know if this is controversial or not. If the Umma ends up being scrapped someone may of course use any of the ideas.

    I am likely to be away from the forum the next week, as I am leaving for a holiday somewhere without internet connection.
     
  5. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    On a completely different topic: what is the preffered religion of Norway?
     
  6. zwei833

    zwei833 HRE Mercenary

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  7. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    If so that would be wrong, as we were catholics under Haakon Haakonsen. Yes we became protestants after the reformation, but before that we were catholics.
     
  8. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Yeah, a civ with Mohammad would be controversial. Absolutely avoid it. The ideas could be re-purposed, of course; though LastSword's Papal States already allows you to spend faith to purchase City-States.

    Catholicism. Just like Denmark.
     
  9. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Darn. I would have liked to play that civ. Oh well, I guess parts of it can be transferred to someone else.

    And I knew of LastSword's Papal States, but thought this was different enough.

    Great.
     
  10. Viregel

    Viregel , The Rt. Hon.

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    You couldn't do a leaderscreen for Mohammad anyway (I think - IIRC, drawings of Mohammad are prohibited), though I don't know about the civ itself.
     
  11. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Yes I know that drawings of Mohammad are prohibited, and should an Umma civ ever be done there would be no leader art. I said it in one of my first comments on the subject. But I think we can easily say that there's not going to be a Mohammad civ anyways. I feel uncomfortable talking about this.
     
  12. dilophosaur

    dilophosaur Prince

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    They are prohibited in Islamic states only, so...
     
  13. COF

    COF Emperor

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    In terms of official law, yes, and while I am a Muslim myself I generally don't see much of an isse there as well. However an overwhelming majority of people do, and I belive that doing that would be the worst idea a modder could do.
     
  14. AW Arcaeca

    AW Arcaeca Deus Vult

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    Then why did you bring it up?!? :crazyeye:

    But yeah, using a widely worshipped spiritual leader as the leader of a civ in a game... sounds like it would make a lot of people offended. With the discussions yesterday about how controversial such a civ would be, I just tried to come up with a more controversial one. Immediately I came up with al-Qaeda led by Osama bin Laden, and on second-thought I'm pretty sure even that doesn't qualify as more controversial. :p (Although it's definitely up there)

    Moving on, JFD, if you're doing Japan, how are you going to get it on the front-page graphic that only shows Europe? :crazyeye:
     
  15. Urdnot_Scott

    Urdnot_Scott Sultan

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    Something doesn't have to prohibited to be offensive, I know the UK refused to make holocaust denial illegal but you probably shouldn't do it in a public place as its still tasteless and disgusting. I'd personally be against an Ummah Civ, its just tasteless.
     
  16. Gyra Solune

    Gyra Solune King

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    I personally think Muhammed would be a pretty great leader, very obviously it'd be a civ excelling at getting a massive religion off the ground very rapidly and with definite benefits for others adopting it. The problem of depiction is pretty vexing, but it's definitely not universal - most consider it an issue if it's depicted tastelessly or in a way meant to encourage idolatry. I figure if you're respectful of it, there would obviously be less of a problem - obviously don't make him some crazed warmonger.
     
  17. regalman

    regalman Reckless Dolphin

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    or you know... you could just go with Umar...
     
  18. Zantonius Hamm

    Zantonius Hamm Gay anime communist

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    Bah, it seemed like a good idea, but I soon realised that doing a Mohammad civ would be too controversial any way you put it.
     
  19. JFD

    JFD Kathigitarkh

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    Mohammad would be controversial because his being is of the utmost sanctity to Muslims. There is no equivalent in the modern world.

    I wouldn't like to presume anything of such a sacred figure - diplomacy lines, DoM text, flavours, etc. Making any judgement of Mohammad's character by a non-Muslim is too sacrilegious for me. I can be extremely objective when it comes to the mods I make - Hitler, Stalin - and have even violated my own values in doing so - Lenin - but I'll have to draw the line at irreverence, and there seems too much a risk for irreverence in doing a Mohammad-led civ. Abu Bakr is probably the next best thing to what is wanted from a Mohammad-led civ.

    I'll just do as I did with Lincoln and Roosevelt; the Japan is under Meiji, so it'd go in the Alternate Leaders section anyway.
     
  20. AW Arcaeca

    AW Arcaeca Deus Vult

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    D'oh. Forgot that another Japan would have to be an alternate civ. :crazyeye:
    ...But that raises an interesting point of discussion (while simultaneously moving the discussion away from controversy (Killing two stones with one bird!)) - I think this has been asked several times, I don't remember, but - are you planning to do any completely new civs, i.e. non-alternate, from outside of Europe?

    Then why? Why would you sacrifice your own principles? To please a bunch of people you don't know in real life but only on the internet? I remember from one of your other threads you said something along the lines of "Modding is first and foremost and escape from all that [daily life]...", insinuating that's it's a hobby and therefore something you like to do. So why would you purposely make yourself feel uncomfortable doing something you normally like?

    EDIT: My incessant asking "why" just reminded me of a good but irrelevant quote:
    Spoiler :
    'Why?' is always the most difficult question to answer. You know where you are when someone asks you 'What's the time?' or 'When was the battle of 1066?' or 'How do these seatbelts work that go tight when you slam the brakes on, Daddy?' The answers are easy and are, respectively, 'Seven-thirty in the evening,' 'Ten-fifteen in the morning,' and 'Don't ask stupid questions'.
    - Douglas Adams​
     

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