JFD and Janboruta's Civilisations

[JFD]

Does Hawaii count? It is a regular state now, isn't it?

I don't think Hawaii could be considered a colony. The British had a very temporary and unsuccessful government over it IIRC, but there wasn't really any long-term success at integrating them into the British Empire (and America definitely didn't colonise it; except now, with Tourists ). It's effectively America annexing another civ/city-state after that (after a long battle between the monarchy and businessmen who weren't profiting enough from the native Kingdom). Poor Queen Lili. I would love to do a civ based upon her

But I'll put a means to incorporate colonies in anyway; historicity be damned, I guess; if it's something you think you'll want/use.

 

[TheLohoped]

If someone can find me a historical precedence (I sincerely don't know, rather than to try and make a point; but I can't think of one.

United Kingdom of Portugal, Brazil and the Algarves. Portugal incorporated Brazil and moved its capital there to escape from Napoleon.

 

[JFD]

Oh yeah. That is a good point. Although probably an exception to the notion that colonies did not ever become integrated - which makes me want to make this Portugal's UA instead of a feature - evidence that it's within the realm of possibility. But yeah, kinda want to make that Portugal's UA What does Sukritact think? Still want it as a regular function? Or can I haz Portuguese uber approps UA...?

 

[TheLohoped]

That would make sense. Portugal has a history of being a transcontinental state including the transatlantic metropolis of the UKPBA and the idea of Pluricontinentalism under Salazar's regime.

It could be interesting to change Maria's Porugal to the UKPBA civ with incorporating mechanics and reuse some of Jan's old art from G&K era to create a proper Portugal civ.

 

[sukritact]

Oh yeah. That is a good point. Although probably an exception to the notion that colonies did not ever become integrated - which makes me want to make this Portugal's UA instead of a feature - evidence that it's within the realm of possibility. But yeah, kinda want to make that Portugal's UA What does Sukritact think? Still want it as a regular function? Or can I haz Portuguese uber approps UA...?

I'd rather see it as a regular feature.

But it is YOUR mod. So do as you see fit my friend.

 

[Pouakai]

Weren't the French planning on incorporating West Africa into France proper, but WW2 and the Algerian Civil War got in the way?

Hawaii is a bit of an odd case, it was pretty much backdoor corporate colonialism. The Hawaiian royal family had strong ties to the missionary families, which then became the sugar baron families, and the sugar barons used that to take a monopoly on much of the island's infrastructure. This led to a strong relationship between the US and Hawaii, and the Hawaiian government gave the US Pearl Harbour in exchange for free access to US markets for Hawaiian goods. When the corporations' stranglehold on the market came under threat from the Hawaiian government, they appealed to the US, who helped the businesses overthrow the government. A couple of years later they entered into negotiations with America to be annexed, and then in 1898 they were annexed as a territory.

So, I guess that could count, or the later statehood (alongside Alaska) if you count territories as colonies. The Delian league / Athenian empire could probably count too, since IIRC some of those islands started out as Athenian colonies

 

[Hoop Thrower]

Personally I think such a feature would fit Spain better than Portugal, something like...

Real Audiencia: UB. Replaces Courthouse, aside from normal features of Courthouses it also reduces the Unhappyness from colonies and transforms them into cities from your empire.

 

[JFD]

Personally I think such a feature would fit Spain better than Portugal, something like...

Real Audiencia: UB. Replaces Courthouse, aside from normal features of Courthouses it also reduces the Unhappyness from colonies and transforms them into cities from your empire.

Cool, but it's just UAs I'm changing here.

 

[hewkii9]

Considering the existence of both colonial empires and equally large but unified states, I think it important that colonial status for far-flung cities not be mandatory for the duration.

 

[JFD]

I'm not so sure about that. Any unified state the size of a contemporary colonial empire would not have been able to administer itself with total sovereignty, in such a way that the mechanic of colonies becoming fully integrated cities wouldn't make sense from a historical perspective - unless we project imperialism into an age which comes after its death. Hence, countries such as the United States, and other such countries near large enough to match those colonial empires, formulated federal systems, which is concept made absent from ExCE, and is beyond ExCE's scope. One could then say Prestige, with it's Commonweath/Federalism vs Hegemony/Unitary state choice, can pick up where ExCE leaves its colonies. And Portugal can, uniquely, integrate colonies as they please.

So my conclusion is that: no, for the time being there will be no way to integrate colonies into your empire (unless you're Portugal). I'll leave that for Prestige. Hence, I'll work to ensure that Attrition, Trade, and any changes to the Exploration tree remain optional features of the mod (as currently are Portugal's revision and Loyalty).

As a side note, it will be possible to turn Slave and Penal Colonies into Trade, Mission, or Fort colonies, if anyone was wondering, as seeing as it's partially relevant.

 

[Natan35]

I'm not so sure about that. Any unified state the size of a contemporary colonial empire would not have been able to administer itself with total sovereignty, in such a way that the mechanic of colonies becoming fully integrated cities wouldn't make sense from a historical perspective - unless we project imperialism into an age which comes after its death. Hence, countries such as the United States, and other such countries near large enough to match those colonial empires, formulated federal systems, which is concept made absent from ExCE, and is beyond ExCE's scope. One could then say Prestige, with it's Commonweath/Federalism vs Hegemony/Unitary state choice, can pick up where ExCE leaves its colonies. And Portugal can, uniquely, integrate colonies as they please.

So my conclusion is that: no, for the time being there will be no way to integrate colonies into your empire (unless you're Portugal). I'll leave that for Prestige. Hence, I'll work to ensure that Attrition, Trade, and any changes to the Exploration tree remain optional features of the mod (as currently are Portugal's revision and Loyalty).

As a side note, it will be possible to turn Slave and Penal Colonies into Trade, Mission, or Fort colonies, if anyone was wondering, as seeing as it's partially relevant.

Will ExCE have a E&D support?
King Sukritact and his Modjesty, can we haz actual modpack?
Also, JFD, what about Carthage? Does it count as a colony?(it was a colony. That integrated other colonies into it.)

 

[TheD3rp]

Will colonies have the ability to declare independence and become city-states(Or something similar)?

 

[JFD]

Will ExCE have a E&D support?
King Sukritact and his Modjesty, can we haz actual modpack?
Also, JFD, what about Carthage? Does it count as a colony?(it was a colony. That integrated other colonies into it.)

There will be a few Events (and maybe a unique decision for one of the vanilla civs), but no requirement for E&D.

Will colonies have the ability to declare independence and become city-states(Or something similar)?

They have the - optional - ability to revolt.

 

[janboruta]

They have the - optional - ability to revolt.

I am now monitoring this thread. Closely.

 

[Alganon]

Ivan its you ?

 

[tmxk2012917]

I am now monitoring this thread. Closely.

Ivan IV?

 

[notque]

While playing as flanders, I got Civil Service, and immediately wanted to test it out. Recruited units from one city, moved to capitol, added them to population. This was all on the same turn.

Population isn't increasing for the ones added back. It does in the main number, so it was 9 and now it says 12 (I did 3 units), but there aren't actually any additional workers in the city to work plots, or specialists. There are only 9 still.

Perhaps this is due to the fact I did it all on one turn? Some other thing?

Edit: Loaded a previous turn, tried waiting a turn to add him back to a city. Didn't gain a workable tile. Hrm

 

[OrderofOlav]

So is modern era decolonization also a factor in this? I mean, independence without actual revolts? Also, would it make sense that integration of colonies as cities have to do with cultural dominance? I like the idea of Portugal with that UA though, I can live without integrating colonies, but where do big empires fall in this category; Russia, North America, the Mongolian, Hunnic and Alexandrian empires (with their sudden explosions of territory) e.a.?

 

[JFD]

Well, those empires, except Russia and the US, conquered their way to an empire (you can still have far flung cities that are completely controlled if you conquer them), and thereafter collapsed. Those who did not became federations, in the modern day.

Decolonisation will only feature with the loyalty mechanic enabled (as otherwise it wouldn't serve much of a function). However, I am extremely limited as to what can be done with revolting colonies to begin with, so revolution and rebellion is not the intended focus of colonies.

 

[Natan35]

Well, those empires, except Russia and the US, conquered their way to an empire (you can still have far flung cities that are completely controlled if you conquer them), and thereafter collapsed. Those who did not became federations, in the modern day.

Decolonisation will only feature with the loyalty mechanic enabled (as otherwise it wouldn't serve much of a function). However, I am extremely limited as to what can be done with revolting colonies to begin with, so revolution and rebellion is not the intended focus of colonies.

Why o why can't we haz a modpack?!
(P&P+E&D+CulDiv+ExCE\ governor's pack= ultimate game experience)