JFD's Rise to Power

[JFD]

I support adding parliaments between medieval and renaissance, thoug I agree that Absolute Monarchy should be the most supported and efficiemt mode in the Renaissance. If the player could somehow be driven to it, perhaps by the scare of revolutionaries, then it could be awesome. I would like to have an extreme threat of revolutions in the wake of the Industrial era, as well, a situation similar to 1789 and 1848, to make the abolishment of absolute monarchy and reforms more useful when coming to the early modern age.

About that unlockment, it doesn't bother me having Liberals early, but Socialists at Renaissance just feels ...very uncomfortable. Maybe there could be possibility of adding them in the Industrial, in the wake of industrialization and factories. It could be more of a two-party system before, of Conservatives and Liberals. It could be easily done, like adding engineers and production shortage to the support of Liberals (as it's more of an middle class thought), and food shortage and unemployment for the Conservatives (as rural and poor people were more prone to support strong state and the status quo.

About these font icons, I support them if the color coding didn't work. Some ideas:
Conservatives: an eagle? (More ideas, please)
Liberals: a dove?
Socialists: a rose
Revolutionaries: a fist
Reactionaries: maybe a crown (controversal maybe) or a diamond shape with an arrow "<-" pointing left inside. I remember seeing this kind of a symbol somewhere.
Fascists: a fasces, definitely
Communists: hammer and sickle
Libertarians: a torch

Clergy: the "ball with a cross on the top", like of a Piety social policy
Nobility: a crown, like of the Monarchy SP.

You mean a globus cruciger

I'll see how I get on with the icons - should they be coloured themselves then? That would mean I don't have to bother Sukritact to make them in blender Are these the colours you'd prefer to see, over the ones I picked (I can't remember if I showed them off)? And remember, Revolutionaries are grouped with the Clergy and Nobility.

The argument to have socialists come later is definitely a win on the conceptual front, but I'm not sure about mechanically and balance-wise, nor whether or not that advantages Parliamentary Monarchies over Absolute ones outright - political parties will end up composing parliament with more variety, and so will impact reforms costs less, but that variety makes it harder to work around them. Absolute monarchies, however, deal with more consistent compositions, and so can plan their reforms and prestige gains accordingly, but, as a result, reform modifiers are likely to be stronger. I think this is something that'll have to wait until testing to determine.

 

[Hypereon]

Yeah, globus cruciger that is

These colours are just some colours, though you didn't show us what did you pick for the PP's... I'm not sure about the colors, I'd prefer white symbols. It's up to the artist though. I could make the colored ones, but I can't use Blender for the 3D ones.

Could you tell us more of the revolutionaires, what are they up to?

 

[JFD]

Revolutionaries, as always, are up to no good

Basically, in an Absolute Monarchy, when parliament is composed, each city is evaluated for the dominant party - Clergy, Nobility, or Revolutionaries. The dominant party is the one where the calculation below is highest:
--(numMonks+1) * Faith output
--(numMerchants+1) * Gold output
--(numOtherSpecialist) * Culture output.

If the city is a Holy City, Clergy are dominant no matter what. Also, Revolutionaries aren't calculated until the Renaissance, and then their calculation is weighted higher if the preferred Ideology in your empire is different to your own.

Revolutionaries pretty much oppose all right reforms, except in economy and industry, and they support nothing. Naturally, because Absolute Monarchy is a right reform, they start out hating on you. Their event (each PP gets an event that can only fire if they're the majority) is about forcing you to become a Republic.

 

[Natan35]

What about religious parties? And... Will there be an option to ban parties? Say, ban facists?

 

[Hypereon]

Their event (each PP gets an event that can only fire if they're the majority) is about forcing you to become a Republic.

Okay. This sounds amazing.

So, the more revolutions the better, I say (at least the threat from inside makes the game more exciting). What are the threats if their demands are not fulfilled? Revolutionary unit spawning with revolution happening if they sack the capital?

 

[SnowyNix]

I support adding parliaments between medieval and renaissance, thoug I agree that Absolute Monarchy should be the most supported and efficiemt mode in the Renaissance. If the player could somehow be driven to it, perhaps by the scare of revolutionaries, then it could be awesome. I would like to have an extreme threat of revolutions in the wake of the Industrial era, as well, a situation similar to 1789 and 1848, to make the abolishment of absolute monarchy and reforms more useful when coming to the early modern age.

About that unlockment, it doesn't bother me having Liberals early, but Socialists at Renaissance just feels ...very uncomfortable. Maybe there could be possibility of adding them in the Industrial, in the wake of industrialization and factories. It could be more of a two-party system before, of Conservatives and Liberals. It could be easily done, like adding engineers and production shortage to the support of Liberals (as it's more of an middle class thought), and food shortage and unemployment for the Conservatives (as rural and poor people were more prone to support strong state and the status quo.

About these font icons, I support them if the color coding didn't work. Some ideas:
Conservatives: an eagle? (More ideas, please)
Liberals: a dove?
Socialists: a rose
Revolutionaries: a fist
Reactionaries: maybe a crown (controversal maybe) or a diamond shape with an arrow "<-" pointing left inside. I remember seeing this kind of a symbol somewhere.
Fascists: a fasces, definitely
Communists: hammer and sickle
Libertarians: a torch

Clergy: the "ball with a cross on the top", like of a Piety social policy
Nobility: a crown, like of the Monarchy SP.

Perhaps this snake could work for the Conservatives? It's a bit too American, but I'd say it works fine.

I've seen it used in a Conservative context.

 

[Hypereon]

I'm not sure. I associate it too much with neocons, the Tea Party (more like libertarians or reactionaries in this mod), and it's quite an unknown symbol, at least here in Europe. Something a little more universal could be needed. At least, because it directly symbolizes the United States, and the patriots of the American Revolution.

 

[ldvhl]

What about a waving flag as the Conservative symbol? Something like this, but not necessarily in color?

 

[Buildkirbyus]

Some ideas I have:

Spoiler :

Andean
Bantu
Bharata
Central
Colonial
Eastern
Islamic
Mandala
Mediterranean
Mesoamerican
Mesopotamic
Northern -
Oceanic -
Oriental - from defeating barbarians.
Semitic - from Great Prophet births.
Steppe - from conquering cities.
Totalitarian
TribalAmerican
WestAfrican -
Western - from founding cities.

I can fill out some suggestions- may not be in stone, but suggestions.

Spoiler :

Andean- No Idea
Bantu - from military units (though this may ONLY apply to Zulus)
Bharata - from Population
Central - from production?
Colonial - from luxury resources/number of settled cities
Eastern - from defensive buildings
Islamic - from trade units
Mandala - from friendly/allied city states
Mediterranean - from land
Mesoamerican - from forests and/or jungles?
Mesopotamic - from farms or population
Northern - from annexing/puppeting cities
Oceanic - from building naval units or building on islands
Oriental - from defeating barbarians.
Semitic - from Great Prophet births.
Steppe - from conquering cities.
Totalitarian - from military
TribalAmerican - from land and/or camps
WestAfrican - from luxury resources
Western - from founding cities.

 

[Hypereon]

I'd be saddened to see claim legitimacy be left off. It'd be an pantheon-style introduction to prestige. Though I also support cultural or trait prestige gain. Basically, an unique combination with most customization would be the best. I also think that the claim could be changed later, but it should be very expensive.

 

[Teproc]

What about a waving flag as the Conservative symbol? Something like this, but not necessarily in color?

That's more Nationalism. Come to think of it, couldn't that be a faction ?

"Don't tread on me" is definitely not a good option, that means nothing to a non-American.

In France and Great Britain, a tree is often used as a conservative symbol, but I'm not sure if that's really a thing elsewhere. Eagle seems decent-ish, evne though it relates more to Imperialism in my mind.

 

[ldvhl]

That's more Nationalism. Come to think of it, couldn't that be a faction ?

"Don't tread on me" is definitely not a good option, that means nothing to a non-American.

In France and Great Britain, a tree is often used as a conservative symbol, but I'm not sure if that's really a thing elsewhere. Eagle seems decent-ish, evne though it relates more to Imperialism in my mind.

Conservatism and nationalism are wrapped up together here in the states, not sure about elsewhere. So is that not a good option?

 

[Hypereon]

Well, an oak tree could be decent, at least quite stable and peaceful. I thought reactionaries as sort of nationalists. Eagle, it's good too, if imperialism is going to be somehow associated with tories.

 

[Teproc]

Conservatism and nationalism are wrapped up together here in the states, not sure about elsewhere. So is that not a good option?

Nationalism is certainly not limited to conservatives. If you want a historical example, look no further than French revolutionaries (or, really, most revolutionaries).

 

[Natan35]

For exaple, Cuba.
(JFD, will Poland Lithuania have some unique interaction with prestige? After all, its UA is called "noble republic").

 

[ldvhl]

Nationalism is certainly not limited to conservatives. If you want a historical example, look no further than French revolutionaries (or, really, most revolutionaries).

That is quite true.

 

[Winstons nib]

Coming up with a symbol for the conservatives is tricky because they tend to stand for, you know, the opposite of change, "conserving" the status quo as it were. Maybe use the symbol for the (original) Tory party?

 

[ldvhl]

Coming up with a symbol for the conservatives is tricky because they tend to stand for, you know, the opposite of change, "conserving" the status quo as it were. Maybe use the symbol for the (original) Tory party?

The other problem being that conservatives from one country don't really identify with the symbolism of conservatism from other countries.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Oh, JFD...

I am saddened. This mod is becoming something less exciting to me. Not that, by principle, one or even many opinions should dissuade from designing according to the one vision you do know intimately (yours). Parliament turned in a direction I didn't want to see, but, 'tis a fine system. But it seems to me that Legitimacy came in need of a creative injection, not that it hit a hard wall , nor feasibility constraint, and not a dead-end.

In sum, I guess I'm just saying I hope the Muse visits you again on that point.

 

[JFD]

Oh, JFD...

I am saddened. This mod is becoming something less exciting to me. Not that, by principle, one or even many opinions should dissuade from designing according to the one vision you do know intimately (yours). Parliament turned in a direction I didn't want to see, but, 'tis a fine system. But it seems to me that Legitimacy came in need of a creative injection, not that it hit a hard wall , nor feasibility constraint, and not a dead-end.

In sum, I guess I'm just saying I hope the Muse visits you again on that point.

I really don't know in what direction you thought Parliament was heading. The current design was always my general intention.

Legitimacy was never intended to be anything more than a source of your prestige. That became unnecessary as I became more accustomed to prestige costs. It was not intended to stand on its own accord as a mechanic.