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Jheronimus leader of Germany - for everyone SG

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Jheronimus, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

    Joined:
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    Well, it looks like Crighton missed the deadline soundly. I don't think we should wait any longer.

    This means that we need to make a choice, for the next turn, is this going to be a standard succession game, or do we continue on with three separate paths from Wreck's save?

    If it's a Standard game now, either you or I, J are up, with the other being "on deck" for the following turn.

    Tom
     
  2. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    Location:
    Netherlands, Velp & Groningen
    I hate it when people don't show up :thumbdown
     
  3. Sabin Stargem

    Sabin Stargem Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
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    I received an invitation to join this succession game. Unfortunately, I feel that I shouldn't participate because the performance of my computer is suspect, and that I have difficulty in not being tardy for deadlines. My apologies. Thank you for the invitation, however.
     
  4. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    Location:
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    I appreciate your post even though you won't join the game
     
  5. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Netherlands, Velp & Groningen
    Okey I started Session 2 (continued Wreck's savegame or a.k.a. session 1) Turn 12 to 26 (15 turns):

    Turn 12: 3450BC: Moved Scout north towards forrest to pop the northern hut already visible.

    Turn 13: 3400BC: Our first worker has been trained. Next I build a settler to expand our empire as early as possible. Moved my worker south to chop away the forrest, moved our scout north to pop the hut, we've got an other scout!! Great, this way we can explore at double rate. To make things less complicated: I named the old scout Hans and the newly popped one Gerhard. I move Gerhard south-east towards a hill.

    Turn 14: 3350BC: I move Hans to the northwest into the forrest, next I move Gerhard towards a new hut in the south, discovered by Hans, they gave us a meager 30 gold :sad: I ordered the worker to chop, it'll give us 20 hammers when completed.

    Turn 15: 3300BC: Hinduism spread into distant lands... Well let them become happy with it :p I move Hans north west on a hill. Whoops I run into a lion, at least I'm on a good defensive square +25%. But what do I see there to my surprise :king: a second source of marble?! I move Gerhard south, he spots a western coast. Our worker completed chopping and returned 20 hammers to Berlin, well done. Our settler is 13 turns away from completion now.

    Turn 16: 3250BC: I moved our worker to the northwestern square adjecent to the city. Hans isn't attacked by the lion, smart lion :goodjob: . Hans continued west. Moved Gerhard east.

    Turn 17: 3200BC: Moved Gerhard south on a hill to. Ordered the worker to chop forrest (20 hammers). Moved Hans west.

    Turn 18: 3150BC: Moved Hans north west on a hill, I see I small "land bridge" or land outcrop. Produced 20 hammers by chopping, I moved Gerhard south.

    Turn 19: 3100BC: Invented animal husbandry, start on the wheel (5 turns). Our score is now: 57. Moved Gerhard east, moved worker west towards forrest to chop. Moved Hans west.

    Turn 20: 3050BC: Moved Hans west, I spot copper west of him, this source is very far away from our capital Berlin (16 squares west to be exact on the land outcrop) I ordered the worker to chop again. Moved Gerhard east to a hill, I spot a river and also some spices to the south (forgot the mention the last one earlier).

    Turn 21: 3000BC: I move Gerhard east again on top of a new hut and popped a meager 31 gold again. Moved Hans west into the open plains, I didn't have an other choice.

    Turn 22: 2950BC: Our first settler is ready! I started training a archer to defend the city. I move my settler towards the west, I've found an ideal spot with marble, rice and hills forrests and whine. I move my worker on the cows and started to build a pasture. Gerhard spots a lion south of him, I move him north east to avoid the lion. He sees some dye and rice. Gerhard spots a bear south west of him :eek: I move him north west.

    Turn 23: 2900BC: I move Hans south west to see a south coast of the land outcrop. Moved the settler west again. Moved Gerhard east through dense jungles.

    Turn 24: 2850BC: Discovered the wheel next I choose agriculture (6 turns)(considdering all the rivers around). I've trained a archer to defend the city. Next I order Berlin to train an other worker. Moved Hans north west, I run into a wolf, moved settler west and I spotted a hut. Moved Gerhard east, he spots copper.

    Turn 25: 2800BC: Move Hans east on a hill, move the settler on the hut, good news I discovered Horseback riding (from hut)!! Bad news is there's no horse to be found near us. Find a source of copper. I build our second city Hamburg (see pic below), this could become our number one production city. I order Hamburg to train a worker first. Our income has now dropped to -2 because of the building of Hamburg. I move Hans north west, the wolf didn't attack. He's still south of me. The worker completed a pasture for Berlin, I moved the worker north east to chop again. Hans spots horses!


    Turn 26: 2750BC: Hans got attacked by the wolf.... He survives 0.5/1 I ordered him to heal (5 turns :sad: ) Activated the archer to kill a lion near Berlin and Hamburg (inbetween), he poses a threat to our workers, who walk there also without protection. Ordered worker to chop. Moved Gerhard east on yet an other hill. He spotts a new goody hut.

    Savegame, conclusion, pics and evaluation will come tomorrow. Then TCGTRF can start session 3 this one will be 10 turns.


    A: The most efficient way to connect both cities to eachother is by building a road to the river here.
    B: Our second source of marble! I think this one will be availible first (considering territory growth)
    C: This copper must be mined asap
    D: Afterwards I thought, maybe I should have build Hamburg 1 square lower. These D tiles don't give us anything, but my thought was to get the marble a little sooner. Is it woth it.... maybe not...
    E: Chopped forrests here.
    F: forgot to mark the lion 2 squares south-east of hamburg, I've already sent an archer to kill it, this one posses a threat to our workers kill it! :sniper:


    That river is amazingly large, it must be one like the amazon river. This one is great to have around, it'll give us some valuable benifits.


    When you adopt slavery we won't be the worst civ in collecting gold anymore.
     
  6. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    You found copper *and* more marble? Great.

    You've expanded a bit faster than I would have. We may end up with some barbarian troubles. I'm going to take a turn to switch to slavery to preserve money and to give us the chance to whip defenders if we need to.

    Tom
     
  7. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Right at our door!

    Looks like you're the man of defences and I'm the man of expansion. we could form a great team :goodjob:

    I've just posted the savegame in the post above, enjoy. From now on we'll play 10 turns/session.
     
  8. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    Ok, so how many workers do we actually have right now? Two?

    I would have definitely have put Hamburg a tile lower. The problem with trying to hook up the marble by putting it that far north is that it will take two full culture pops to get it. Currently we have nothing that is putting out culture, so until we get either Mysticism (for Stonehenge or Obelisks) or Writing for Libraries, we're not going to even be close to it. It would have been better to make another city for that.

    As it is, I think the third city, when it comes time for it should be to the south. Two reasons--first of all, it looks like we've got the north to ourselves, so we want to expand in the direction of potential rivals to insure we have interior lines going to our mutual border. If we can build a line of culture across the continent at a narrow spot, we can cut them off if we want to from colonizing our space. Secondly, we can hook up the marble down there as soon as we have Masonry. If we want to build the Great Library or the Parthenon, it will make it a matter of a few turns.

    Ok, as far as techs go, we'll need Pottery pretty soon. I think Berlin, once the trees are removed from the river valley will make a scrumptious science city. To accomplish this, we'll need to cottage about everything, then get to Literature early and build the Great Library in it. This will have to wait a bit though. I would have actually left the two northern E forests that you chopped. They would have been a nice secondary source of hammers for a while.

    Do we need Mysticism at all? I tend to think not, since we're so low on defense right now that if we detour to build obelisks and Stonehenge, we're going to get overrun with axemen. This means that we have to build *next* to whatever resource we want to hook up. Keep this in mind for the mable south.

    We'll also need Ironworking to clear jungle before we go too far south. There is a heck of a lot of room to expand. It's a shame we're not a Financial or Organized Civ, we could be huge. As it is, we're going to have to watch money.

    OK, we're first place in military, but I don't think that that's a good guide to how strong we really are. A strong wind or a single wandering warrior from an opposing Civ would make this a very, very short game. Therefore, I'm going to delay the new workers until the cities have grown to at least size 2. The trees adjacent to Hamburg and in the river valley near Berlin are chopping targets and I'll be making some Archers with them. We need a minimum of two in each city--one to go out to keep enemies away from things like the copper mine and one to stay in the city in case that one bites it.

    We'll need a barracks in Hamburg and a Grainary in Berlin (once we get pottery).

    Once we get the copper hooked up, we can spam four or five axemen and station them around the fringes of our burgeoning empire and keep back the Fog of War. It is likely with all this open space that the barbarians will found a city or two that we can take with axemen or swordsmen and add to our empire. Once we get the two cities up to size 3, we can make some more settlers and a couple archers to accompany them to their new sites.

    Hamburg looks fine for a production city. We'll just need enough food to work all of the hill tiles and the copper mine tile. The rest of the tiles can be saved for workshops once we get Metal Casting or cottaged if we're short on money. Save the Heroic Epic for this city.

    I'm not sure exactly what tech I'll go for next, I'll need to see the costs and check them against the tree.

    Tom
     
  9. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    I shall put your words in mind when it's up to me again, for now good luck and kick some ass in the game! (Tom it's your turn, 10 turns from now on)
     
  10. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    Yeah, how many workers do we have? As far as I can tell from your building, there's only one, but you keep using the plural in your descriptions. I'm at work and cannot open the file.

    Tom
     
  11. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    10 turns are done, Wreck's on deck next. You might want to send him a note, since he hasn't posted in the game lately.

    I will do a play-by-play tomorrow, here's a screenie and the saved game:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    Hmm, didn't expect the continent to continue to the east. And sorry about the worker thing. I will send Wreck a notification, although he hasn't been posting since Feb 24, 2006, 10:39 PM. If he won't respond, we can always continue by just the two of us.

    Ok, sent him the mail.

    Now let's look at your savegame


    Summary, we've got:
    -1 scout woodsman I, woodsman II (very good double movement in woods, this way we are able to explore fast)
    -1 scout woodsman I.
    -2 workers
    -4 archers (we've already got the largest army so nothing to fear yet)
    -2 cities (3rd on it's way due to almost trained settler)


    Eventially tribalism is going to cost money (1 gold for civic upkeep), the moment this'll happen we've got to move to slavery (no upkeep). This'll save us 1 gold each turn in the future.



    If we want to build a next city, this spot (blue circle with blue borders) would be ideal, the only thing concerning me is the fact it's a little far from the capital, but still. This spot could lead to a mayor productive city, pumping out military units. In combination with the heroic epic this spot could lead us to victory! I think this is the best of the view options to construct a productive city nearby our capital.

    Why the blue spot:

    1) it's near the large river connecting us directly to the capital
    2) it has large quantities of hills (green), with large amounts of hammers if mined
    3) it has vertile lands (orange) within it's fat cross to produce enough food to maintain all the mines working.
    4) due to the river most of the veritile squares can be irrigated straight away.
    4) it has even got two special resources (yellow); sugar and rice, to produce even more food to keep all mines running.
    5) the stone can be mined and connected once the borders have expanded.

    Why not the purple spot, it has more hills:

    1) to many hills in contrast to vertile land. This city won't be able to get enough food to keep all mines running. Esspecialy due to the white squares, they produce to less or no food. (I even forgot one top left)

    Conclusion:

    Very well, we're doing quite good. We need to build some more cities in our first expansion phase. So we end up with about five or six in total. We also need to build up an army to invade the opponent and to keep them small, causing no threath. We also need to build a costal city who's capable to build ships fast (if we need to go to an opponent across the ocean).
     
  13. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    Hey, just a note to indicate I am still in. I got the mail and I will do my turn tonight I think. I will subscribe the thread so I don't have to be notified to pay attention.
     
  14. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    Ah, welcome back, very good. We almost thought you dissapeared. Luckely you're still with us, you're a prof aren't you? And what do you think of building the next city at the spot I discribed above?
     
  15. TCGTRF

    TCGTRF Warlord

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    I've got the flu today, so I spent most of the day in bed. Most of what I did yesterday for my turn was build units, mine the copper and hook it up to Hamburg. Note that Berlin is running on the governor, Hamburg is not, so watch it when it goes up in pop

    We got Agriculture, Fishing (from a hut), Pottery and are now working on Writing.

    I think that your new proposed city site is not a good idea. Right now, we are lowest in population. This means that we need to run up our cities population's pretty quickly, lest we fall behind on research or money. Your site is way, way too far from any exisiting city (which would add to our costs) cannot be defended adequately from our production city (Hamburg) and does not hook up any essential resources. Our best bet to get a city that far away right now is to wait for the barbaians to build one, then take it away. Any new cities we build should either hook up an essential resource (like the marble to the south) or be along the river no more than 5 tiles or so away from an existing city. The purple city site is even worse, since it is one tile from the ocean rather than being on the shore. Never, never NEVER build a city there. What happens if you do it is you're stuck with tiles of ocean with no chance to build a lighthouse or harbor to improve the tiles' yield. In addition, it would take 10 turns!!! to send a settler accompanied by archers to the blue city site. We cannot afford to wait that long for another city, we're too small as it is.

    Ok, here are the implications of us being alone on the continent [We are either alone, or we're facing off against a civ with one city at the end of a six by one peninsula. (In the latter case, we'd have one fewer enemy within 30 turns.)]:

    a) No tech trading until at least Optics or, at best Sailing. This means that getting Alphabet is not going to help us beyond its utility at getting things like other techs and the Great Library until then.

    b) No foreign religions. This means that we're going to miss out on the happiness benefits as well as cultural and Organized Religion for building until we found one ourselves. We might seriously getting Mysticism and Masonry really soon and building some obelisks to pop our borders. Otherwise, they are going to be static until a Library is finished. I hadn't been paying attention to which religions have been founded. Can we get a fast one?

    c) Near infinite sprawl possibilities. We can put down as many cities as we can afford. We can also steal some from the barbarians when theirs get to size 2. This means that we will need Currency, Code of Laws and Monarchy fairly early. Our cities will be limited for the most part by happiness. We can whip away the excess for buidings once we switch to slavery, but we need to get the pop up first. My guess is that we can get 6 or 7 cities total before we have to wait to catch our breath. I would also *highly* recommend waiting until any further cities are at population 3 or higher before using them to make more settlers. The low comparative pop is going to kill us if the other civs are trading among themselves, as they will be doing soon. We do have a problem in that respect.

    d) We need a seacoast city soon. We need to get some galleys out there and see if there's a shallows bridge to another continent to make contact.

    A continental game with us alone on quick is going to be really hard to win. I'm up for the challenge, but we cannot afford to commit too many mistakes.

    Tom
     
  16. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    OK, I downloaded the game. Haven't played it yet.

    My impression is we are alone on this continent. No enemy scouts seen yet, right? The other civs should have them out... or warriors at least. I can't think there are any of them anywhere near us.

    So, an early war probably just isn't happening. We're fine on defense... more than I normally build. So I'll concentrate on other things. In particular I want to get a barracks up before building too many more units. Getting the +10%, then after a first win another boost rather dramatically increases the power of the early military units. Since it looks like all we'll be dealing with for a while is barbs, no big rush on the axemen. Although I *always* fell much more secure having one around to deal with barbs.

    I also want to get up the granary and grow some. Hmm, have to think on that.

    For city #3, I am thinking let's not push out too far. That takes time; either you escort the guy slow, or you take chances with animals and barbs. Rather I've got my eye on a fairly close spot, still connected via river. It will require a library (or stonehenge) to make it pop out to the local resources, but until then, it's got floodplains which are pretty nice by themselves.

    Anyway, on into it. Let's see what happens.
     
  17. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    OK... here we go

    2250 BC: before my turn I twiddle some production queues, and move an archer out to get ahead of the settler. Archers are slow, settler fast. Want to stake out the place for our 3rd city.

    2220 BC: Scouting, scouting, building. Nothing unusual. Archer built in Hamburg, and no immediate need, so sending it out west/south to look around a bit.

    2150 BC: uh oh, Gerhart meets Kublai Khan. So, we do have a "neighbor"... way, way down on the far end of the continent. Nothing to worry about here. Yet. Scout Hans sees some nice seafood. Mmm, crabs and clams! Maybe with a nice red sauce. Is that lower spit of land connected to our continent or not?

    Near Berlin, we now see a bear in the spot I am heading for with the settler. Well, archers will kill bears easily enough if I can position myself right. Hills/Jungle/Grassland would be just fine...

    2100 BC: bear doesn't move where I'd hoped, so, confrontation delayed.

    Realized we don't need 2 archers in Berlin with its border this far back, so sent one out to look around to the north. Hopefully can find some animals while in woods, and kill 'em for the EP.

    2050 BC: Archer/scout to the west reports a nice new river valley out there... Hans will flesh out the details. That lower spit of land is definitely connected.

    Bear has disappeared (?). Remaining cautious with settler and escort archer.

    2000 BC (5): founded Munich. After some thought, decided to let the bear (now seen at the borders) alone. Archer may kill it exploring later, but only if I can get the best odds possible. Archer will look around the site to the north and east, since that area is still unexplored.

    The northern archer sees a wolf. Do I leave the safe confines of Berlin's culture zone? Yes, I do. Small chance of dying, but 1 exp for it, and I get to see what's up there.

    Copper is now hooked up. Can build axemen, and just might if I start seeing barbs. Kind of expect them by now, but don't see any... lower play level?

    1950 BC: Completed Writing, going for Mysticism. Let's see if we can't do a slingshot... why not?

    Northern archer kills wolf, not a scratch. Barbs are weak on lower levels, I forget this. (Shoulda confronted bear probably.)

    We meet Asoka, with Gerhard, near the Mongols. Holy cow, why is it taking so long to meet these guys? Guess my expectaction are skewed on this, too. Well, hopefully these two will keep each other busy... while we lock up the West. Scout Gerhard wades into a huge jungle. You don't see this sort of thing on small maps. Maybe this is why we have not met Asoka yet.

    Scout Hans finds a new tribal village. Next turn to pop it.

    1900 BC: Hans pops village, gets a map. This "peninsula" is pretty large; larger than the far-northern one. Another village sighted. And a second, by the archer that's down that way.

    Not too much else happens.

    1850 BC: archer pops hut (after some decisionmaking... should wait for scout? no... there's a panther there I want to kill w/ archer, to clear area for scout.) Got 100 gold. Fairly nice.

    Scout Hans heads towards other hut.

    In the east, scout Gerhard finds ocean south of massive jungle area.

    Got Mysticism, still building libraries. Heading towards Priesthood to try to go for Oracle to Civil Service slingshot.

    1800 BC: Archer kills Puma, to 2.4. Another archer kills lion, no damage.

    Hans gets 69 gold from village.

    Woops... scout Gerhard (the double-promoted one) finds a barb warrior on his second movement point. He'll be attacked next turn. Doesn't look good for our hero... he's got +50% from jungle, and +40% (?) from double-woodsman. Cross fingers.

    1750 BC (10): Gerhard dies. Durn. Other archers start to head back towards towns... feeling a bit paranoid here. Except the one, which fortifies waiting for a bear attack against it in woods.

    1700 BC: archer beats bear, takes .1 damage. Keeps looking around very close to Munich (can still get back in time if barb appears).

    Hans finds new tribal village, pops it, same turn. Gets 94 more gold.

    1650 BC: Hans ends next to a lion, on a hill. Northern archer finds a bear. Should be interesting combats. Asoka's scout is now near to Munich.

    Hamburg completes Library. This is good... culture... should pop borders fairly soon.

    1600 BC: Hans wins, damaged though. Starts healing. Northern bear leaves archer alone (?!). Don't risk moving in open, so, heads back south towards Berlin.

    Teching is really fast... I've been cottaging Berlin which helps, but rate is also high here. Priesthood down, going for Code of Laws. Libraries still creeping in queues...

    1550 BC: nothing much happening. Northern archer sees bear again.

    1500 BC:Northern archer kills bear. Border pops at Hamburg, so, am now irrigating the rice tile.
     
  18. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    OK, here's the new file.

    View attachment 118063

    I concentrated on getting the cottage industries started in Berlin, and growing the other two cities. Teching seems to be going fast. We're currently racing for Code of Laws... we'll see if we win. If so, the slingshot to Civil Service should be doable.

    Scouting is going all right, though there is a huge continent out there. Thus far, barbs have not been a problem, but they should be soon. We've lost one scout to them. Archers should be OK scouts for the medium term, and hopefully then we'll have scoped out most of the continent.
     
  19. Jheronimus

    Jheronimus Warlord

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    Ok you did 15 turns, we where already playing 10 turns a session, please do so from now on. Thanks for your detailed log and posted savegame. I guess I'm on deck right now.

    Tom have a good recovery from the nasty flu, hope you'll be better soon.
     
  20. Wreck

    Wreck Prince

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    Woops. Somehow I missed that it was supposed to be 10.
     

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