[RD] JK Rowling and Explicit Transphobia

[Ajidica]

Oh, please! How many bathrooms are we going to end up with? We already need to have three with the one for people on wheelchairs. You're arguing for more?

I've never gotten the obsession with bathrooms. As long as whoever is in the bathroom when I'm there doesn't try and make eye contact, and keeps the grunting when on the throne to a minimum, I'm sure we'll get along fabulously.

 

[Arwon]

I've never gotten the obsession with bathrooms. As long as whoever is in the bathroom when I'm there doesn't try and make eye contact, and keeps the grunting when on the throne to a minimum, I'm sure we'll get along fabulously.

Most of the anti trans movement is based on tapping and spreading subrational revulsion and fear in order to recruit. The bathroom thing is one example of attempted limbic shortcut against people susceptible to it. Roughly the same tactic as spruiking unflattering photos, concern trolling about injured cis women in sporting events, and stories about specific individual predators. All attempts at being the opposite of rational.

You can see nearly the precise same deliberately non-rational fear- and hate-mongering in anti-gay messaging wherever it's had a lot of currency.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I get what JK Rowling is trying to say, she's not going about it in the best way.

It's just a stupid situation. Generally I believe you can do whatever you like (within reason).

It's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain there's a difference between cis women and trans women but people are trying to create an emperor has no clothes situation.

By that I mean a climate if fear where people can't state the obvious without being called a bigot.

Going the other way the you shouldn't be allowed to creat a climate of fear where trans people can be targeted for assault etc and all the other stuff.

Call yourself whatever you want, anyone else can stick whatever label they like as well.

Anyone crossing the line gets my usual suggested punishment.

That punishment being throw all the nutters into a stadium once a year. Add weapons and let them sort it out. Use machine guns and napalm on any survivors.

I bet within 5 years sanity prevails and people start treating each other better.

Government enforced be nice to each bother. Or else.

A climate of fear?

I can't use the toilet of the gender i transitioned too without fearing for my own safety, without worrying that i will (and have!) be dragged out of it and beaten.

You don't have a clue.

Stop whilst you are ahead and educate yourself, do yourself the basic favor of not falling into the trap of talking or opining on a subject you're clearly not versed in.

 

[Zardnaar]

A climate of fear?

I can't use the toilet of the gender i transitioned too without fearing for my own safety, without worrying that i will (and have!) be dragged out of it and beaten.

You don't have a clue.

Stop whilst you are ahead and educate yourself, do yourself the basic favor of not falling into the trap of talking or opining on a subject you're clearly not versed in.

I don't care what bathroom you use.

But some things the trans community does loses them support.

We had one here write an opinion piece complaining about gender reveal parties.

If course public opinion landed on her like a ton of bricks.

Gender reveal parties not my thing but some cus women like them. It's not an unreasonable thing to do IMHO.

Of you're lecturing a d preaching about stuff like that you're going to get pushback. It's obvious something like that will happen

Now I'm sure there's some Uber liberals think gender reveal parties are badwrongfun but it's a thing in the real world.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

But some things the trans community does loses them support.

Like the use of bathrooms of the gender they identify as.

We had one here write an opinion piece complaining about gender reveal parties.

Irrelevant.

If course public opinion landed on her like a ton of bricks.

Don't care.

Gender reveal parties not my thing but some cus women like them. It's not an unreasonable thing to do IMHO.

Totally unrelated to this topic.

Of you're lecturing a d preaching about stuff like that you're going to get pushback. It's obvious something like that will happen

Pushback to using a toilet. Get some perspective. Do some research, ask transpeople how they feel and about their experiences rather than remaining ignorant of them.

Now I'm sure there's some Uber liberals think gender reveal parties are badwrongfun but it's a thing in the real world.

Don't care. Irrelevant. Totally unrelated to this topic.

Quit whilst you're ahead.

 

[Zardnaar]

Like the use of bathrooms of the gender they identify as.



Irrelevant.



Don't care.



Totally unrelated to this topic.



Pushback to using a toilet. Get some perspective. Do some research, ask transpeople how they feel and about their experiences rather than remaining ignorant of them.



Don't care. Irrelevant. Totally unrelated to this topic.

Quit whilst you're ahead.

You excluded the part where I said I don't care what toilet you use. Common sense should apply.

For those that abuse it existing law can cover the extreme examples.

Thread title isn't about using toilets.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

You excluded the part where I said I don't care what toilet you use. Common sense should apply.

Except to some people, it's "common sense" to ask a passing transwoman to use the male bathroom.

Thread title isn't about using toilets.

It's not about gender reveal parties either, which is an entirely different topic from transpeople.

 

[Zardnaar]

Except to some people, it's "common sense" to ask a passing transwoman to use the male bathroom.



It's not about gender reveal parties either, which is an entirely different topic from transpeople.

I used it as an example where the trans community is alienating people for no good reason.

All I know with pregnant women and women with infants is give them what they want it will make your life easier.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I used it as an example where the trans community is alienating people for no good reason.

You don't seem to grasp how delicate a situation this is for transpeople, whether it's because you don't care or you don't care to educate yourself is neither here nor there for me.

The alienation others feel when they're confronted with their rhetoric over the use of gendered spaces is a fraction of what transpeople face and live through everyday for using something that is not only a basic human right, but taken for granted throughout the entirety of the western world.

Until these people experience what it's like to be dragged out of a bathroom or changing room, quicking and screaming as people try to assault you or harass you on the basis of who and what you are, then whatever discomfort they feel from transpeople pushing back on their views, no matter how coarse or undiplomatic it is, isn't something i'm even going to entertain. It's a non-starter.

I see no difference between this and the argument that white people might feel offended or made uncomfortable by the presence of non-whites in white only toilets/changing rooms and being offended by those that advocate for the abolition of race segregated spaces. Both are rooted in bigotry and fear.

All I know with pregnant women and women with infants is give them what they want it will make your life easier.

What does this have to do with transpeople? It's a complete red herring.

 

[Bugfatty300]

You do realize that the vast majority of people doesn't even understand what the hell you're talking about, with all the cis and trans, men and women combinations? Not to mention "terfs". And never will. If you think this is the path towards even a semi-normal life, thing again.

What insight! You know that not that many years ago the vast majority of people didn't even know transpeople existed or that gay people weren't deviant child molesters. They spewed the same nonsense you do now.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

You do realize that the vast majority of people doesn't even understand what the hell you're talking about, with all the cis and trans, men and women combinations? Not to mention "terfs". And never will. If you think this is the path towards even a semi-normal life, thing again.

You realize you could apply this logic to literally any group's issues and terminology, including:

Women
LGBTQ community
Black Rights
Religious minorities
Ethnic Minorities
Different languages etc

It's a specious, boring argument that betrays your contempt for minority issues and struggles.

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't seem to grasp how delicate a situation this is for transpeople, whether it's because you don't care or you don't care to educate yourself is neither here nor there for me.

The alienation others feel when they're confronted with their rhetoric over the use of gendered spaces is a fraction of what transpeople face and live through everyday for using something that is not only a basic human right, but taken for granted throughout the entirety of the western world.

Until these people experience what it's like to be dragged out of a bathroom or changing room, quicking and screaming as people try to assault you or harass you on the basis of who and what you are, then whatever discomfort they feel from transpeople pushing back on their views, no matter how coarse or undiplomatic it is, isn't something i'm even going to entertain. It's a non-starter.

I see no difference between this and the argument that white people might feel offended or made uncomfortable by the presence of non-whites in white only toilets/changing rooms and being offended by those that advocate for the abolition of race segregated spaces. Both are rooted in bigotry and fear.



What does this have to do with transpeople? It's a complete red herring.

Main point is you need people to support your point of view. You're never going to convince the nutters.

If you're deliberately pissing people off for no good reason you can't really expect them to support you.

Sometimes you do need to piss people off. It's just a general observation how people react in the real world.

People don't like being lectured, preached to, spoken down to or insulted.

That applies regardless of personal point of views. You pick your fights.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Main point is you need people to support your point of view. You're never going to convince the nutters.

Look, I can't even convince them that i deserve to exist, so what's your point?

If you're deliberately pissing people off for no good reason you can't really expect them to support you

My existence pisses people off.

Sometimes you do need to piss people off. It's just a general observation how people react in the real world.

My very existence pisses people off.

People don't like being lectured, preached to, spoken down to or insulted.

And i don't like being under the constant threat of being assaulted or harrassed for existing, for using the toilet, for going outside my home. Now guess which one of these has an actual, day to day impact?

That applies regardless of personal point of views. You pick your fights.

See, this is where you are dead wrong, I didn't pick this fight because that assumes i made the choice. I'm involved in this, to this extent, because i have no other choice, transpeople are some of the most marginalized people in society, when we're not being scapegoated, abused or laughed at by cispeople, we're being abandoned and derided by the LGB community and we're also the current targets of an unceasing culture and legal war.

So spare me this "pick your fights" bs, all i want to do is to be able to go outside, **** and piss in a toilet without having to feel like im going to get my ass stomped for using a facility of the gender that i've transitioned too, instead i have to worry about freaks, chasers and bigots obsessing over my genitals and other aspects.

 

[Zardnaar]

Look, I can't even convince them that i deserve to exist, so what's your point?



My existence pisses people off.



My very existence pisses people off.



And i don't like being under the constant threat of being assaulted or harrassed for existing, for using the toilet, for going outside my home. Now guess which one of these has an actual, day to day impact?



See, this is where you are dead, I didn't pick this fight because that assumes i made the choice. I'm involved in this, to this extent, because i have no other choice, transpeople are some of the most marginalized people in society, when we're not being scapegoated, abused or laughed at by cispeople, we're being abandoned and derided by the LGB community and we're also the current targets of an unceasing culture and legal war.

So spare me this "pick your fights" bs, all i want to do is to be able to go outside, **** and piss in a toilet without having to feel like im going to get my ass stomped for using a facility of the gender that i've transitioned too, instead i have to worry about freaks, chasers and bigots obsessing over my genitals and other aspects.

Your existence pisses off the crazies.

They're a waste of time.

You need the support of the not crazies. Don't piss off everyone all of the time.

If I had to guess it's another 20-30 years to get trans to the point of where gays are now.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Your existence pisses off the crazies.

They're a waste of time.

You need the support of the not crazies. Don't piss off everyone all of the time.

If I had to guess it's another 20-30 years to get trans to the point of where gays are now.

Nice blackmail. "Stop being angry and pushy and we'll think about treating you weirdos like human beings."

 

[Zardnaar]

Nice blackmail. "Stop being angry and pushy and we'll think about treating you weirdos like human beings."

Observation. The left seems to like losing a lot of elections.

It's not so much the message but the messaging.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Don't do this please. Create your own thread about this.

I could give other examples that have nothing to do with firearms, if you prefer. The fact of the matter is that there are many laws that follow a pattern like this and they tend to suck consistently.

 

[Bugfatty300]

Observation. The left seems to like losing a lot of elections.

It's not so much the message but the messaging.

Freudian slip? An unbiased neutral observer wouldn't consider transrights to be a "left" issue. It's pretty much a mainstream issue in America now outside of right-wing reactionary circles. Why don't you drop the "What a nice movement you got here. Be ashamed if something happened to it" messenger act.

 

[Crezth]

Observation. The left seems to like losing a lot of elections.

It's not so much the message but the messaging.

It absolutely is the message. That's why this thread exists.

 

[Zardnaar]

Freudian slip? An unbiased neutral observer wouldn't consider transrights to be a "left" issue. It's pretty much a mainstream issue in America now outside of right-wing reactionary circles. Why don't you drop the "What a nice movement you got here. Be ashamed if something happened to it" messenger act.

Big issue in America was healthcare and BLM now.

Best ally you guys have is Trump. Seems intent on political suicide.