JOE-02 - Germany's Revenge

[JesusOnEez]

The main problem we've got is that we're getting closed in by Toku, who according to the variants has to be an ally. As it is, it's next to impossible to get Open Borders with him in my experience, no matter how much we bribe him.

The variants also state taking out the allies, if we can't get at them before we have a big navy, then it's gonna be a late win. It also states in the variant that taking out the allies may not be enough for a Domination victory, and that we can take out other civs. I'm suggesting, because of the unfortunate way the map has ended up, that we concentrate on staying friendly with Julius, to at least try and keep the variant alive, and to hell with Toku. Make him our first target.

We've neglected our military, as the appearance of a Barb Axe has shown, so maybe we should concentrate on military techs and building for a while so we can at least take a few of Toku's cities, or perhaps wipe him out with razing and re-settling.

We have Iron now, so building up a SOD of swords and axe's shouldn't be too much of an issue. We should probably aim for Cat's next, then maybe Feudalism for Longbow's for defence as it may not be long before Toku gets his Samurai in check.

If we can source his Iron and take out his supplies that would be helpful...if he's trading Iron in, that may be more difficult.

But I feel that Toku has to become primary target for the time being otherwise we're stifling ourselves, and he will eventually attack us, especially with our current defenses.

As for more players, I posted here (currently the last post in the thread) and have only had one response...there's not much more I can do although I will ask in the two other SG's I'm playing if anyone would be interested in joining in...if you could do the same that'd be helpful.

 

[Mutineer]

It is my undestanding that by the nature of wariant we can not attack Toky. What we need to do is to get religion and spread it to him. You can get open border with him or even with out them a holly city near him will do the job. Religion will do the trick. It is my undestanding that Toky will not attack you if he percive you military strong.

 

[JesusOnEez]

Generally it's true...Toku won't attack if you're military is strong...ours isn't. We certainly need to build up the military as a priority. The variant also states that if we have any religions it's got to be Christianity. If we don't get that, we're screwed. We're also a long way from getting Christianity, so attacking Toku before he attacks us may be the only option.

If I'd know better and wasn't such a noob, I would have gone into World Builder when the world was initially generated, and made sure the people we're supposed to be allies with weren't our next door neighbours, but at least I'll know to watch out for that and check the World Builder before starting the next SG!

 

[JerichoHill]

Major General Jericho reporting in as ordered SIR!

A brief bio:

I've been playing since C2. Right now I can handle Monarch and Emporer no problemo. A statistician/economist by training, I'm very keen on micromanagement and economy development.

I'm a veteran of these games, but new to the CFC world.

Semper Fidelus, or something

 

[Mutineer]

Well I load the save and I only can say that game is a deep ****.
Tactically archers from 2 coastal cities need to be put into 2 big empty one's.
No one will attack coastal cities and they are small.
Toky allredy got religion and this is very bad news. To be true, I am not sure game is savageble at this point, not in the meaning of the variant.

I think currently the only chance is:

city that going to build library in 1 tune - work only cottages. Pure sci city for a time.

Capital need to go into full military production.
Thurd border city that was near barbarian hire 2 scientists in order to get first GP ASNP. It has excess of food for that.

Population need to grow and deterant military need to be created, axes mostly as best at this time defence trops. Some source of happiness need to be found, in form of Dramma or is Hinduism spread to as so we con convert to same religion as Toky has.

As back up plan, Firs GP should be target Philosohy in order to get own religion and spread it to Toky somehow, with out converting ourself for a time.

Trade need to be watched, so we trade Alphavit if we stop having monopoly of it and get as many tech as posible, we are grossly behind.

Tech pach propoused. Finish Mathematic-Dramma-Music and try to use free artist if we can get it to discover Cristianity. Not sure it is posible, it is allredy AD and in Monarch games I useally play AI getting cristianity around 10 AD/BC.

 

[Shadzy19]

I wouldnt like to break the variant neither , i think it was the understanding to not declate on japan/italy unless we where short on land to get domination. We may have gotten the worst starting position we could imagine by starting next to Toku (the hardest AI to convince when it comes to open borders) and not being able to pass him by land or sea without open borders. However its been 20 turns since we gave him our wheat so that bonus should be coming any time soon , im not sure how long it actually takes in a epic game. Once we get the bonus i think we can get open borders with him and being able to trade with him .
Biggest problem i can see is we are behind on science and on power and that can never be good thing. We need cats asap and start warring.

1 last question about the variants , i know we cant trade or get open borders with the allied forces but can we extort techs from them?

 

[JerichoHill]

I would say thats fine, the extortion of techs.

I do not believe we should break the variant. The point of playing a variant game is not to win, but to play by the variant.

 

[Shadzy19]

Tech pach propoused. Finish Mathematic-Dramma-Music and try to use free artist if we can get it to discover Cristianity. Not sure it is posible, it is allredy AD and in Monarch games I useally play AI getting cristianity around 10 AD/BC.

Im sorry but this isnt going to work , this would not only get us in a path with techs we really dont need , getting christianity from a artist will revolve in researching a lot more techs , we would need polytheism , monotheism , literature , priesthood and monarchy before we can finally get theology from him.

 

[JerichoHill]

I dont want to be mean, but please use spellcheck (not to you shady)

 

[JesusOnEez]

JerichoHill, you're in by the way.

OK, I think it's agreed that we don't break the variant. I agree that our best course of action is to get our war machine up and running, and hope the Wheat relationship bonus takes effect with Toku soon, so we can get open borders and start slapping Catherine about (I think she's on the same continent).

Rock On!

 

[JerichoHill]

Great, just let me know when its my turn in the rotation

 

[Mutineer]

Im sorry but this isnt going to work , this would not only get us in a path with techs we really dont need , getting christianity from a artist will revolve in researching a lot more techs , we would need polytheism , monotheism , literature , priesthood and monarchy before we can finally get theology from him.

From the trade window this are techs that will be available for trade for Alphabet. Well, some of them. Monarchy is the only expensive one from your list and it is always good to have.
What is alternative? Construction path for a war machine? But what if Toky will not give open borders? We need back up plan, plan with more flexibility.

 

[Shadzy19]

Just played my turns , focused mostly on growing city's and been working cottages . We dont have enough workers around to make use of the best tiles for all our city's.

Turn 0 20AD:
MM Berlin to get archer in 4
Send a warrior back to Hamburg.
MM Munich for growth.

Turn 1 40AD:
Hamburg : library > archer , start working 3 cottages and the wine on the plains hill.
Barb axe spotted again , change Munich to archer , i will whip it if the axe comes any closer.

Turn 2 60AD:
Barb axe disappears again , Munich back to barrack.
MM Berlin to get archer in 1.

Turn 3 80AD:
Berlin : archer > archer

Turn 4 100AD:


Turn 5 120AD:
Barb axe shows up again.

Turn 6 140AD:
And he's running again

Turn 7 160AD:
Pasture and iron mine are done.

Turn 8 180AD:
Berlin : archer > sword
archer starts moving to munich

Turn 9 200AD:
Frankfurt : obelisk > work boat
I give Frankfurt the flood from Berlin.

Turn 10 210AD:
Munich : barrack > axe

Mathemathics is due in 6 , only Elizabeth has it so we might be able to trade it to the romans.
Im getting confused with Toku , 30 turns of a free resource and we still didnt get any + for it , that must be the first time for me this happend.
We can still give him deer and try to persuade him , i hold off on it so i could trade deer and wheat for his ivory but as of yet he wont give

I was wrong , we can get past Toku by sea at the moment , our coastal city's arent running at full speed yet though and building galleys from them wont be cheap.

Tips for next player :
MM Hamburg once the mine is complete
MM Munich next turn when it grows , i suggest the pasture , the iron mine , the plains hill mine and working the lake.
Cologne's borders will expand in 3 turns and our WB is due in 4 if we keep on working the 1h tile , change it if u wish.

Spoiler :

Turn 141 (20 AD)
Hamburg finishes: Library

Turn 142 (40 AD)
Munich begins: Archer
Munich begins: Archer
Munich grows: 3
Frankfurt grows: 2

Turn 143 (60 AD)
Munich begins: Archer
Berlin finishes: Archer

Turn 144 (80 AD)
Berlin begins: Archer

Turn 145 (100 AD)

Turn 146 (120 AD)

Turn 147 (140 AD)

Turn 148 (160 AD)
Berlin finishes: Archer

Turn 149 (180 AD)
Berlin begins: Swordsman
Frankfurt finishes: Obelisk

Turn 150 (200 AD)
Frankfurt begins: Work Boat
Munich finishes: Barracks

Turn 151 (210 AD)
Munich begins: Axeman

 

[Shadzy19]

From the trade window this are techs that will be available for trade for Alphabet. Well, some of them. Monarchy is the only expensive one from your list and it is always good to have.
What is alternative? Construction path for a war machine? But what if Toky will not give open borders? We need back up plan, plan with more flexibility.

Even if we can get priesthood , poly and monotheism in trade that still leaves monarchy , drama and music , as i just checked our current research after my turns that is around 100 turns for those 3 techs .
Lets say it will get a little better that is still around 60~ turns .
Right now we can only trade with Caeser also so just trading around isnt really a option for us , dont forget we arent allowed to trade with the allied forces.

 

[Shadzy19]

ROSTER
1. JesusOnEez >
2. REM > MIA
3. Shadzy19 > just played
4. Mutineer > up!
5. Jerichohill > on deck.

If something is wrong with the roster feel free to correct me JOE .

 

[Mutineer]

Got it, will play when come from work.

 

[Mutineer]

Even if we can get priesthood , poly and monotheism in trade that still leaves monarchy , drama and music , as i just checked our current research after my turns that is around 100 turns for those 3 techs .
Lets say it will get a little better that is still around 60~ turns .
Right now we can only trade with Caeser also so just trading around isnt really a option for us , dont forget we arent allowed to trade with the allied forces.

Dramma is practically compalsory right now as a source of happiness. With out religion and our allies do not have mach happiness resources to offer. Culture slider is practically the only source of happiness easy avalible to as.
Second one is monarchy and I noticed we do have wines.

So, the only tech that out of our direct way is Music and Music is cheap tech that give as free artist.
Main problem as I see that you went with early cottages start, build all this cottages. But cottages strat does not produce shields. It does not go with all out warmordering well. The only answer is specialisation.

In my turns I will investigate posibility to build city far north to secure land passage around Toky. There is a big free water lake, so if there any sea resources avalible it could be a good site for a city that will pay for itself as minimum.

 

[Mutineer]

Some additional arguments, in a spirit of variant.
Germany famous for its philosophers and musicians.
Names Kant or Iogan Sebastian Bax comes to mind.

I am sorry if my spelling wrong, I am actually Russian.
Even from Religious point of view, Germany is a mother of Reformation. In a way it did invent all late flavors of Christianity.
So philosophy- music-Christianity role is very mach in a spirit of variant, ignoring game play arguments.

 

[JesusOnEez]

@Shadzy
OK, we can trade tech only with the enemy. NO open borders with them though, and no resource trading.

@Everyone
One thing to note about Music as a tech is that not many AI's prioritise it so I usually find it has quite a good trade value, so even if it takes a while to get it, we may make up for that in the techs we can get for it...it's also not a particularly dangerous tech to give to Toku as a gift to help "persuade" him to open up his borders. As it is, I'd tech for Cat's as a priority though.

 

[Mutineer]

Well, I found empire more or less in order, so I did not change mach.

T1- Roosvelt build piramid
T2- Hamburg Archer- axe
Rooswelt - Universal sufferege. Stuped him.
T3- Cologne border expand
T4- Cologne boat-library
T5- Mathematica-Dramma
I would finish Dramma no matter what. Reason, all our cities at max size of near max size. We need to grow. Culture slider the easiest way for as to do so.

Look on trades, we do not have monopoly on mathematics and on Alphavit.

Viky weekest AI, sole he Alphavit for Priesthood, Politheism and Sayling.
Ai has Col, Monotheism and Monarhy, Red by Various reason. Advise to try to get Monarchy if we can.
T6. Our defending Axeman kill Barbarian Axe.
Change Cologue Library-Galey.
T7. Franfurt Axe-Setler.
Taoism fidal. AI got philosophy.

Purpouse, try to settle site near Silver on north. May give as happiness and permanent water way around Toky.If we can do that, we can fiery army around north and hit Rooswelt. I want his piramids.
T8
T9
T10