1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

JOE-05 - The Crusades

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by JesusOnEez, Feb 28, 2007.

  1. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    For the game registration post, click here.

    In the 11th century, the Turkish expansion was making inroads into Europe, and carrying with it the religion of Islam. Threatening both Christianity as a whole and more directly, the Byzantine Empire, Alexius I contacted the Pope for help defending his Empire, but the Pope had other ideas and announced a religious crusade against the Turks!

    I'm no historian, but the above is the basics of how The Crusades got started. I've tried to make the game as accurate as possible with regards to the countries and civilizations involved in The Crusades. There is no Byzantine leader or civ in Warlords, so I've used Julius Caesar of the Romans (The Greeks would have been a sound choice also). The Turks obviously do exist in the game as the Ottoman Empire (albeit they were established in 1299) so that bit was easy. The other civs in the game had involvement in The Crusades, but you'll discover them on the way.

    The Variants
    1. All our cities to have Christianity at earliest opportunity (100% of everyone's cities by end game).
    2. Must run Theology throughout when available.
    3. No trading (tech/resources/open borders) from Islamic nations. We can demand items or sue for peace from Islamic nations.
    4. Islamic cities must be razed (0% of cities by end game).
    5. Holy cities must be razed.
    6. We must not found any religions other than the Christianity we start with.

    Other religions are allowed, but if we're heading for Domination, foreign cities under our governence must also have Christianity as stated in variant 1. We'll have to careful with Domination, as we may reach the limits before Islam is eradicated. Conquest would be "safer".

    The Good
    Once Rome is founded, I will go into World Builder and make it the Christian holy city (we won't start with Theology however).

    The Bad
    Once Mehmed's capital is founded, I will make it the Islamic holy city. We will start with no worker techs to ofset the advantage of an early religion. Mehmed will keep his worker techs to make things more interesting!
    If Islam spreads to one of our cities, it must be gifted to an Islamic nation, then conquered at the earliest opportunity (Islam then removed via Wordbuilder), hence Theology is a priority (depending on Mehmed's whereabouts).

    There is the possibility that Mehmed could found another religion and spread that around instead...I'm hoping he won't...we'll see how it plays out. I don't think you can disable religions in Worldbuilder.

    ROOSTER - Strict 24/48 Hour Got It/Report
    JesusOnEez
    Cosmichail
    Rince
    Mice
    Vra379971
     
  2. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    Here are the game settings for clarification...



    It still says "Julius.." at the top, but reading the blurb shows us as Alexius I and we're Byzantine...



    Our start...



    Very short on production, but bags of food if we settle in place. Those forests will need chopping as they're good attack ground for any enemy...maybe to chop our first Settler or two. Maybe save them for Collossus or Great Lighthouse? GP farm and/or research monster. Fishing plainly a priority, Bronze Working also...we're not going to need a Worker initially so first build will be interesting as we have no techs!

    Oh, and turns will go 30/20/15/10/10/10......

    Please post an updated Rooster after your turnsets!
     
  3. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Jesusoneez, you're back nice to see you again. I like the sound of this variant and would like to join.

    Nothing like a good crusades campaign and what better that knights although being Roman I image those praets will do a lot of the work.
     
  4. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
  5. Rince

    Rince King

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    In your city, poisoning your water!
    I'd like to join too!
     
  6. berserks01

    berserks01 Obviously Very Confused

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    MA
    I don't think you're allowed the option of razing a city you owned even if it was gifted/captured by an AI and you take it back.
     
  7. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    @ Rince: You're in...welcome to the show!

    @berserks01: Hmmm...if that's the case, I'll to think of a way to combat it. We could capture it then raze it in Wordbuilder, or change the rule so that I can remove Islam from the city using Wordbuilder at the expense of...something.

    The situation may not occur if we're running Theology as fast as possible...alot of it depends where he is. If he's next door then it could be a problem...if he's on a different continent then it probably won't be.

    Obviously, I know where he is as I have to give him Islam to start with, but I'm not going to give anything away and will certaily not be going into Wordbuilder to do anything other than grant the religions to the two cities. If I do happen to spot anything advantageous, then I'll play as best I can without taking that knowledge into account.

    I'll think we'll cross the bridge if and when we come to it!
     
  8. mice

    mice Moose

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,180
    Location:
    tundra
    I'd like to join if I can. the variant sounds great.
     
  9. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    @mice: You're in! Welcome.

    I've reworded a couple of the variants for clarity...changes in italics.
     
  10. mice

    mice Moose

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,180
    Location:
    tundra
    Thanks. :) You know you could take the other religons out of the game if you wanted to go that way, by going into the XML and making thier pre-req future tech. Too late now but it's an idea for another time. Just the two religions.

    Edit: That would make it a mod of course so we would all have to load up the same mod, and lurkers too,so not such a good idea

    Also Islam sneaking into our cities shouldnt be too much trouble because we'll have theocracy well before Islam is founded I think. Following theocracy we found cities accompanied by a missionary when possible...
     
  11. Cosmichail

    Cosmichail Dark Lord of The Sith

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Location:
    Korriban
    Jesusoneez Berserk is right about that although I thought you had to have culture built up during your reign in order for that to happen.

    Hey Berserk does that mean you are playing too?
     
  12. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,364
    I believe if you've generated 25%+ of the total culture that any owner has ever generated for the city then you can't raze it.
     
  13. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    @mice: That's an idea I thought of but it would have been too much trouble...unrealistic as well, I mean after all, there are other religions in the world! ;)

    Also, note in the rules;

    So Islam won't be founded at Divine Right, it'll be founded at the start via Worldbuilder, same as our Christianity, hence the need for Theology fast(ish), depending on Mehmed's whereabouts.

    @Cosmichail & Jet: I think it's best that we discuss it if and when it happens. If it happens, post the turnset log up to that point and we'll decide what to do then, but I'm leaning more towards gifting it to Mehmed or any Islamic nation, attacking when convenient, then removing Islam via Wordbuilder when it's conquered...this could be seen as the Crusaders "killing" Islam in the city...how's that?

    EDIT: In fact, this is how it will work...altered in first post.
     
  14. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    We're only waiting for one more player, so I'll get this rolling in 24(ish) hours...any ideas for starting off?

    I think we're going to need the whip, so I'm thinking a research order of Fishing, then Bronze Working. Remember, we can only work the land tiles until Fishing, and they're pretty crappy. We will expand fast because of being a holy city.

    Fishing>BW>Hunting>Animal Husbandry>Iron Working>Beeline Alphabet.

    We can forget about any early wonders...our early production will suck here.

    Whilst Fishing and BW are being researched, I'm thinking a Worker build first (contrary to what I said under the screenshot), so he can start chopping the nearest forest tiles to go towards a couple of Workboats for fast growth, then crack the whip for the next few builds (Warriors & Settlers...Library?) whilst the Worker builds some improvements.

    Thoughts? It's a strange start...but I'm hoping to get to Praets as soon as possible to take out any possible near neighbours...if we want to effectively use Praets, we'll need a decent production city nearby, or keep cracking the whip...we'll see how the land lays!
     
  15. Rince

    Rince King

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    In your city, poisoning your water!
    The worker would need BW to chop, right? I guess he would be finished before BW but then I don't see any use for him. Maybe a warrior would be better and then a workboat once fishing is there?

    Rince
     
  16. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
    Right on the BW to chop thing. I primarily want him for chopping the three forests to get Workboats out as fast as possible...by then we should be close to Animal Husbandry to hook the Cows up which will give us some much needed Hammers and even more food for the whip. The Worker might not have much to do after that, so sticking the Wheel & Pottery in before going for the Alphabet might be an idea. I don't mind having the Worker hanging around doing nothing for a bit, but it's the fastest way of getting the Workboats out as far as I can tell...

    Normally I might build a Warrior, but with such little production in the BFC it's going to take an age to build one, and I'd rather have the Worker ready and waiting to chop when BW comes in.

    Perhaps;

    Fishing>BW>Hunting>Animal Husbandry>Wheel>Pottery>Iron Working>Beeline Alphabet.

    Our Worker wouldn't be hanging around for too long then with three Worker techs coming in a row.
     
  17. Rince

    Rince King

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2002
    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    In your city, poisoning your water!
    I see. I'm OK with your tech-strategy and build priority then.
     
  18. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,010
    May I join in?
     
  19. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,030
    Location:
    Braintree, UK
  20. mice

    mice Moose

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,180
    Location:
    tundra
    I agree with going Wheel/ pottery before Alphabet , but that's because I favour early cottages. With all this food is it better to go for early scientists?

    Certainly we need wheel to hook the metals, and on Prince the other ai won't have too much to trade for yet. Alphabet to trade for IW ?

    The border pop may reveal another hill in the capital (hope).

    I was thinking second city Oracle to pop HR and then cottage the capital with a big population- if we dont have really near neigbors- after the initial whip for a settler. But that's my usual style and I'm very happy to go another way. ie , use the whip more in the early stages.
     

Share This Page