JOE-06 - Big Fat Metal Barons

A relative quiet turnset ... except for winning 2 battles against barb archers.

Writing comes in, I went for IW (for gems). We also need it to assess if Brennus has extra metal.

I OB'ed with Brennus ...



Sun Tzu said: "Know thy enemies and thyself".

Blah ... No metallic defenders in Vienne.



Ossh, what a superb site.



Good news is it has copper (good for the baron in us). Bad news is it has copper.

We got an axe from Bob, I whipped an axe in Capitol, and there is gonna be one more coming soon (whip overflow). Start moving the axes to wards Vienne. If there continues to be an absence of axes in the city, we could probably declare after 10 turns.

There is a barb city in the southwest touching our borders, so keep at least an Impi in the capitol.

>>> The Save (1150BC) <<<

And for our lazy SG leader:

== GreyFox - Just Played
>> frankcor - UP (10 turns here on in)
== JesusOnEez - On Deck
== Lucky1972
== vra[somenumber]

Since vra did not say if he wants a swap or skip, I presume it is a skip. Suggest you post a got it if you actually hope for a swap instead.
 
Oh, okay GreyFox. That narrows it down some for me. It's either Brennus or Khan, or Caesar, or Hannibal. I don't think anyone's mentioned Mao as a possibility. Maybe I'll declare on him. We'll call it the Woodshed War.

::grinning, ducking, running like heck::
 
Lucky, we don't follow all our ironies and exchanges all that well, either ;)

You're right, GreyFox, I didn't catch your directions regarding Axemen until I read it the second time -- I like a good whipping as much as the next fellow, but I always try to remember to go back over all turn reports since my previous one.

Scouting to the west continued with our first peek at China:


In fact, we saw more Chinese cities and Roman cities too:


We discovered Iron Working in 10 turns, as predicted and we're running break-even at 80% research, thanks to a cottage at Ulundi. Ulundi also has Iron:


So do Brennus, Caesar and Hannibal -- Praetorians and Berzerkers coming soon to a border near you. Our Iron is a turnset away from being hooked up. I can imagine Caesar's will be hooked up faster than that.

I cut a deal with Hannibal:


And with Caesar:


Livy thinks we're pathetic:


When we were up to 5 Axeman, I put some forest-chop overflow into a Granary in Ulundi. The Granary just finished and I selected a Settler for our Horse town. The Barbarian city is in a pretty sweet spot. There's a coastal tile that can grab the Horses, Pigs and Wheat and have a few hills to work. On the other hand, he can settle east for us.


The final Axeman from Ulundi is at Bob now. Next turn, all 5 Axemen can step into the neutral zone between us and Vienne. Declare on Brennus the turn after that. There are 2 Axemen and an Archer in Bibracte right now. With some luck, we may have enough Army right now to take Tolosa from Brennus if we go there right after taking Vienne.

Here’s the save, have fun:

ROOSTER
GreyFox ( played flawlessly)
frankcor (just played)
JesusOnEez (Up - 10 turns)
Lucky1972 (On deck - 10 turns)
vra[somenumber] (10 turns)

Spoiler Ruff’s log :

Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0 (Warlords v2.08) - New Log Entries
Turn 95/660 (1150 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:00:28]

IBT:

Turn 96/660 (1120 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:13:37]
Ulundi finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 97/660 (1090 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:18:26]
Ulundi begins: Axeman (7 turns)
While attacking in Zulu territory near Ulundi, Impi defeats (2.20/4): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 96.8%)

IBT:
Attitude Change: Brennus(Celtia) towards Augustus Caesar(Rome), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 98/660 (1060 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:21:35]
Impi promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Zulu territory at Ulundi, Impi defeats (2.56/4): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 94.6%)

IBT:

Turn 99/660 (1030 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:25:41]

IBT:

Turn 100/660 (1000 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:29:20]
Bob grows: 4

IBT:
Civics Change: Hannibal(Carthage) from 'Despotism' to 'Hereditary Rule'

Turn 101/660 (985 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:31:57]
Ulundi grows: 5
Ulundi finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 102/660 (970 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:42:05]
Ulundi begins: Granary (6 turns)
Bob finishes: Axeman

IBT:

Turn 103/660 (955 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:50:16]
Bob begins: Axeman (6 turns)

IBT:
State Religion Change: Mao Zedong(China) from 'no State Religion' to 'Judaism'

Turn 104/660 (940 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:52:31]
Tech learned: Iron Working
Ulundi finishes: Granary

IBT:
State Religion Change: Kublai Khan(Mongolia) from 'no State Religion' to 'Judaism'

Turn 105/660 (925 BC) [15-Jun-2007 14:56:00]
Research begun: Alphabet (34 Turns)
Ulundi begins: Settler (14 turns)
While attacking in Zulu territory near Bob, Impi defeats (4.00/4): Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 75.3%)
 
Good play, especially on the scouting part. You did a lot more scouting then I did in the forty-fves turns I played :lol:

Hmmm ... strange decision to build a granary before settler (granary need growth to be useful, yet building settler = no growth).

Either way ... why non-military builds? we need lots more axe to finish Brennus off. Unless we are not going to finish hm off, but to extort techs, and wait for the killing next time. Then we need alphabet.

If next player decides to continue with the settler, I say go for the yellow circle first .... need the chariots to deal with Brennus's axes.

Last whip of frankcor for today ... your rooster is actually a hen ... Lucky has already swapped with Joe.
 
JesusOnEez said:
We must control all copper, iron and aluminium resources in the world.
We have to be selling (for gold only) at least one of the above metal resources to every civ by the end of the game. That's active deals at games end making Diplomacy a bit more fun.
We must NOT wipe out any civilization...they are paying customers after all.
Click to expand...

I guess we are NOT finishing of Brennus, and in fact we should plan how are we going to let him live. If he still has only three cities, the choice is obvious, but I need to look at the save.

Thinking about eternal one-city civilizations that we let live arround our territory, I wandered what would happen if the city has metal. We could earn the metal by culture, which could be hard if the city is sitted on it. But I guess flipping a last enemy city is not wipping him out, since it was they who wanted to join us. We could also bribe someone to do the job. In his cultural games Mutineer did this using vassals, but I don't see us having any vassals in this game.
 
Sorry 'bout that. I edited my report to put the correct save in it.

Fox, I started the Granary in anticipation of more whipping in the capital. I was thinking of whipping the Granary and putting overflow into a settler. No hammers have been committed to the settler if we want to change it. We should consider whether or not we think our econonomy can handle 3 new cities: yellow dot, the Barbs' Yu-Chi and Brennus' Vienne. The same is true about Alphabet. No beakers have been hard cast to it.
 
Some thoughts:

Brennus has one more city, Georvia, besides those 3 we see. So we can capture/raze all three without braking the variant rules. I think we should discuss what to do with Bibrace and Tolosa. We want the Bribace site, but, can we afford it? If not, will we raze it? (someone will settle there).

My feeling is we will only capture Vienne from this first war, then get some pillage money until peace. But it takes 9 turns for the axemen to get to Bibrace or Tolosa from Vienne, therefore this decision won't need to be made during my turnset.

Besides Vienne, the Barb city and the yellow dot, I see us settling two more cities to the east of Ulundi (cow-fish-rice and gems-rice) This seven cities should be enough for us to wait until Construction for the next war.

In the mean time, we must win the cultural battle against Cumae (we are currently loosing it due to creative Augustus), or raze it (but I guess we will prefer not to fight Augustus just because of this). I would like to build a library there soon, and a wonder later.

I am not sure about the settler build, I wonder if we should build four more axemen there for the barb city instead. But this won't keep the yellow dot safe, because we will need third borders pop to block the east. And yellow dot will give us horses in maybe 20 turns or so. I am leaning towards going ahead with it, like "when in doubt, trust your teammates".

I am also thinking about masonry for the marble, because I think Bob could use the improved tile. But I did't check how long it would take.

Anyway, I will move the axemen, declare, and hopefully take Vienne. I expect a 2 archers defense and 1 (at worst 2) axeman lost. Then I will move the army towards the other Brennus cities and let JOE have fun.

I will play tomorrow afternoon, will check back before playing to see if there's any imput from the team.
 
Lucky, you summed up the situation very well. We take Bibracte now, or never. Currently it is lightly defended. If we can get the Iron on-line and add 2, maybe 4 whipped Swordsmen to our stack, we can take it, I'm certain. It sure looks like it will be a great Heroic Epic city for us for many centuries.

Either way, switch the settler-build to another axeman or impi.

Neither the Barbarian city nor Yellow Dot will be great cities until late in the game but they do secure some health resources for us in the short term.

I considered Masonary for the exact same reason you mentioned -- a few extra hammers for Bob.

Do not put our northern Impi within range of the axemen in Brennus' capital until he has some heavily armed escorts with him. But get in there and pillage his copper. It might take a while, but we can win a war of attrition once we've killed off those 2 axes in his city. With Swordsmen, we can kill his archers.

How do we want to use a Great General? Super-medics are good. City busters are pretty useful too as long as we can keep them protected.
 
We cannot afford not to take Bibracte ... what's the point of declaring war if we stop after Vienne? Don't worry abt city maintenance at this stage ... it will heal itself as long as we don't overdo it (bibracte has so many seafood that it should be able offset, if not neutralize, the distance upkeep.

-
 
I got interrupted, then later I had to play with my 7-months old daughter on my lap, with my 2 years old daughter also arround. When the older one finally managed to strike the keyboard and almost hit enter at the wrong time I decided to wait for them to sleep. But the turnset went well after all, problem is I am writting this report at almost 2 am, so forgive me if I forget something important (like the roster, for example ;) ).

Turn 0
I see that Masonry will take 7 turns, go for it. It would be more than 40 turns until we could work that marble if alpha first. Since Ulundi had 2 turns of whip unhappyness I decided to let it grow changing the settler to an axeman and working the rice (growth in 5 turns). I did the same in Bob, working more food for one turn longer on producing the axeman (the more I play this game, the more I like food). I wanted the next player to be able to whip hard with iron connected.

Turn 1
Move the axeman, move the impi towards Vienne.

Turn 2
We declare war on Brennus, and do it face to face:


We capture the worker next to the impi. Move the axemen and see that Vienne has only 2 archers. When I was preparing to move the impi, I noticed a loose archer. Give the impi the cover promotion, attack and win at 98.6&#37;.


Turn 3
I begin with the less experienced axemen, first one is given cover and wins at 68%. Same with the second one, exept he loses :mad: . Third one attacks unpromoted and wins at 99% odds. We capture Vienne.


Since GreyFox is so worried about mantenance costs, I raze the city (no, just kidding... I do understand most of what you say).



The new worker goes chop the monument in Vienne. This may have been a mistake, since Vienne has judaism. I felt there is not much to improve in Vienne until borders pop, so decided to make it happen earlier. But now I think it might have been better to road our way to Bibracte.

Turn 4
I deal with a barb archer SW, Axeman trained in Bob, start another. Three unharmed axeman march towards Bibracte.

Turn 5
Brennus counter attack comes real fast! I must confess I was totally surprised by this:


No more working lake tiles for us (good that we will have that marble sooner). Could have been more of a nuisance had it been a galley with some troops. But he wont have the chance. Two turns late I realize we can go back to 100% research and do that now (sorry :blush: ).

Turn 6
Our scout reaches Rome:


Vienne is on-line.

Turn 7
We reach Bibracte and see 2 Axeman and 1 Archer inside, and 50% culture defense. As expected, we cannot take it right now. But will make sure they stop using OUR copper! :trouble:

Turn 8
A galley brings a spearman to reinforce Bibracte. We pillage a mine on our way to the copper.


Our reinforcement axes detour to Tolosa to take a look and find a spearman, that runs back next turn.
Axeman done in Ulundi, I start an impi.

Turn 9
Hannibal founds on top of the iron. There's also a Mongolian city on the copper SW. We pillage the copper :hammer:.

Turn 10
Augustus wants our ivory:


Our army:


Other screenshots:




 
Well, at least I tried to solve the pictures problem... will keep trying...

Ulundi will grow unhappy at the same turn we connect the iron. Remember NOT to put too many shields into the swordman (or axe, or whatever) in order to whip for 2 pop (more than 45 hammers must be needed).

I selected a Library in Bob for you to change to whatever you want (no hammers invested). A granary can be built in only 4 turns (whip value). I do think the library is a good idea, 25&#37; over the gems and the possibility to start running cientists. It can be whipped for 2 pop in 3 or 4 turns.

The axeman on the gold hill is for spotting reinforcements, the other one is preparing to pillage the road to disconnect the cities.

Now, here they are.

The Roster:
GreyFox (built us an army)
frankcor (kept building us an army)
Lucky[hisbirthyear] (just had fun with Fox and frankcor's army)
JesusOnEez (swaped with Lucky - Up - 10 turns)
vra[somenumber] (on deck - 10 turns)

And the attached save. Have fun!
 
Great job taking Vienne ... I think the monument is okay (provided it's chopped) as we may need chariots to get to bibracte faster.

Forget about the library, me think. I say let's keep the axes rolling and overrun Bibracte. 2 axes per defender should be a good number.

What's up with the white spaces in your screenies? ;)

--
 
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