Joe Wilson, great American hero ?

[Holycannoli]

Sigh

All of that says nothing about enforcement. That's just a summary of sections. Go show me where enforcement was included, before they had to go back and actually include it. It's in there now, it wasn't before.

Or do you not believe that they went back and altered the bill to include enforcement and close some of those loopholes?

You know, if it wasn't illegal in many context to ask for ID(some form of ID's illegal can't get "drivers licenses") people wouldn't make such a stink about it.....nah, yea they would. lol

but still, it would make me feel better.

ER services are not going to ask,...(for good reason)

So now who gets health care? Do permanent residents?, work visa???

My biggest worry is the people who think you shouldn't need a ID to vote are policing illegals getting health care (c'mon you know who you are)...

You mean not policing illegals getting health care (well they're policing them now, after they added it to the bill). They purposely left enforcement out of the bill. Not even mistakenly left it out; they were told to put it in because it wasn't there and they said "no". Why say "no" to enforcement?

There are politicians who actually want to change the law to allow illegals to get drivers licenses. I don't know what part of "illegal" they don't understand. You shouldn't get anything but a bus trip across the border if you're illegal. It sucks, but right now that's how it has to be.

 

[Maxxie]

Even in the English system, if you aren't a citizen then you get emergency health care but you are then billed for it. That is probably the only thing that can be compared between the NHS and the reform in the U.S., and it kind of shoots down your implied argument that tax payers will be made to pay for any extra treatment for "illegals". Everyone is entitled to emergency care under any circumstances and no reform can change that. Its just part of being a civilized nation.

 

[kulade]

All of that says nothing about enforcement. That's just a summary of sections. Go show me where enforcement was included, before they had to go back and actually include it. It's in there now, it wasn't before.

Or do you not believe that they went back and altered the bill to include enforcement and close some of those loopholes?

And after that, show him were it says the enforcement will be enforced!

damn libruls

 

[FriendlyFire]

All of that says nothing about enforcement.

You mean not policing illegals getting health care (well they're policing them now, after they added it to the bill). They purposely left enforcement out of the bill. Not even mistakenly left it out; they were told to put it in because it wasn't there and they said "no". Why say "no" to enforcement?

They must have haxed into my PC and replaced my copy of the document.
Not to mention the "hardcopies" that the congress and press got hold. They must have ninja'ed them back and replace with all new copies so they could clamin there were enforcement clauses all along.

 

[dido]

Oh yes, breaking the law and working for practically free qualifies you to be a citizen of the United States. You make it sound like it is impossible for them to earn citizenship, if that were the case then I wouldn't be speaking to you from New Jersey.

Is it that impossable to learn English and know a little American history. OH GOD! That is too tough to do! Let's just sneak in and hope for mass blanket amnesty for pissing on the laws of United States!

And look, I can do this "" too.

looks like someone is mixing up citizenship and residency

 

[Cutlass]

All of that says nothing about enforcement. That's just a summary of sections. Go show me where enforcement was included, before they had to go back and actually include it. It's in there now, it wasn't before.

Or do you not believe that they went back and altered the bill to include enforcement and close some of those loopholes?



You mean not policing illegals getting health care (well they're policing them now, after they added it to the bill). They purposely left enforcement out of the bill. Not even mistakenly left it out; they were told to put it in because it wasn't there and they said "no". Why say "no" to enforcement?

There are politicians who actually want to change the law to allow illegals to get drivers licenses. I don't know what part of "illegal" they don't understand. You shouldn't get anything but a bus trip across the border if you're illegal. It sucks, but right now that's how it has to be.

Immigration law enforcement should be part of an immigration overhaul. Not a health overhaul. If you're going to demand it be done, try demanding it be done right.

 

[JollyRoger]

So are conservatives saying we need some sort of national id card or chip implant? Or do they want us to carry around our long form birth certificates just in case we need emergency care?

 

[Cutlass]

So are conservatives saying we need some sort of national id card or chip implant? Or do they want us to carry around our long form birth certificates just in case we need emergency care?

The latter.

 

[Hsinchu]

Even in the English system, if you aren't a citizen then you get emergency health care but you are then billed for it. That is probably the only thing that can be compared between the NHS and the reform in the U.S., and it kind of shoots down your implied argument that tax payers will be made to pay for any extra treatment for "illegals". Everyone is entitled to emergency care under any circumstances and no reform can change that. Its just part of being a civilized nation.

Hey, getting a bill for my medical care... sounds like the plan I have now, but I'm still worried about losing my job because my employer can't afford to match for all his employees....


However, in regard to illegals: In the United States illegal immigrants getting services is not always a problem. It is most typically a problem when said illegals scurry back over across the border and cannot be tracked to be billed. Extradition for accounts receivable is... not enforceable. Hence, tax burden on those of us left behind... with jobs that actually pay taxes as opposed to those working for cash to stay below the poverty line to continue receiving services.

 

[Hsinchu]

So are conservatives saying we need some sort of national id card or chip implant? Or do they want us to carry around our long form birth certificates just in case we need emergency care?

A driver's license or regular DMV id card seems sufficient if the picture and stats match the person. If you are out without ID, what the heck? You don't need a "national" id card since every(?) state already has identification systems in place.

 

[JollyRoger]

A driver's license or regular DMV id card seems sufficient if the picture and stats match the person. If you are out without ID, what the heck? You don't need a "national" id card since every(?) state already has identification systems in place.

An illegal immigrant can easily obtain either of these.

 

[Hsinchu]

An illegal immigrant can easily obtain either of these.

Yes, and in the state of California, the former constitutes fraud since I believe the motion to approve illegal immigrant DLs was voted down.

The latter, however, implies registration. If you are in a database, they can tell you if you are covered or not. They can also bill your listed address... and flag you if you don't pay.

of course nothing is counterfeit proof =P

 

[trader/warrior]

Someone shoots you and takes your wallet with your id.....

 

[Hsinchu]

Someone shoots you and takes your wallet with your id.....

I'm shot!

I am sad.

 

[Maxxie]

That those who pay for hospital visits, etc. pay for those who don't is a fact in the existing system. Because a civilized nation can not refuse emergency treatment to anyone that happens and can't be changed in the reform either. Look into the financial details of the bill, as much as your employer is paying for any existing corrupt private insurance schemes will be lowered, and curbing the institutional overcharging of insurance will lower premiums further. That produces a lesser burden on the economy than the corrupt private schemes, not more. Increased coverage and care improves worker performance and boosts the power of the economy. After all, can you work as effectively when you have an untreated illness as when you are in full health? All companies should be championing this as a way to improve worker attendance at a small cost and in that way make more money.

 

[otago]

Does that look like what I said to you? Because...it really doesn't look anything like it to me. What I said was that our side didn't spit on the troops. Your side did. Your protesters are the ones who march with signs encouraging people to "shoot the troops." Ours are the ones with the signs that say, "support the troops." So you tell me which side supports its heroes more. Your side, which encourages Americans to criticize, spit on and even shoot our troops, or Joe Wilson, who is currently supporting his own children who serve in the military.

LOL my side, returned servicemen spitting, nope did not happen.
Hmm, supporting the troops, waving signs etc, some advice, want to support the troops, join them.
So should people vote for the chickenhawk Wilson or that Iraqi veteran Miller ?

 

[Ecofarm]

chickenhawk Wilson

From 1972 to 1975, Wilson served in the United States Army Reserve, and then as a Staff Judge Advocate in the South Carolina Army National Guard assigned to the 218th Mechanized Infantry Brigade until retiring from military service as a Colonel in 2003.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wilson_(U.S._politician)

What's with the spamming "chickenhawk"? I mean, I think the word is funny too but c'mon. The guy served an infantry brigade for 30 years and retired as a Colonel; that's a pretty distinguished service record. Heck, he was serving during the Afghan war.

 

[FriendlyFire]

And after that, show him were it says the enforcement will be enforced!

damn libruls

 

[JerichoHill]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Wilson_(U.S._politician)

What's with the spamming "chickenhawk"? I mean, I think the word is funny too but c'mon. The guy served an infantry brigade for 30 years and retired as a Colonel; that's a pretty distinguished service record. Heck, he was serving during the Afghan war.

What they're getting at is that he was never in the front lines of any war. Which is a silly criticism since he's a legal dude in the first place so he's more admin than anything. Look, the guy's actions were detestable and rude enough, it devalues the argument and criticism against him for detractors to call him a chickenhawk. That's a lie right there.

Sigh.