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Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Windsor, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. leeuw01

    leeuw01 Warlord

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    They had to, In all of a sudden you guys are forgetten Civ Facebook?
    They are working now on Civ facebook for a long time and they just dont want bad publicity.

    Figure it out yourself: The man who is held responsible for the game leaves, now everybody thinks a bit more positive about the future of the francise and believes fraxis will improve it. They make a couple of good patches and after that CivFacebook is released...
     
  2. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    Oh yes you do, you certainly know the hows & whys.
    What ModBuddy did is pivotal even to the product direction & what can be altered to fulfill anybody's wishes.
    I thought it was made very clear by the pre-launch PR campaigns.
    What came after ended up in a huge design mess, granted. But the SDK is in our folders, ready for some monumental re_actions.
     
  3. Eddogegr3

    Eddogegr3 Warlord

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    I hope Civ 6 will happen eventually. Bad economy, doomed PC-Gaming, Dissapointting Civ 5... it looks bleek.

    But even best case scenario, let's say they drop everything with 5 and start on 6 (doubtful), 2-3 years away at BEST.
     
  4. President

    President Chieftain

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    To be honest, the vanilla version of Civilization V is way better and more innovative than any of the vanilla versions beforehand. However, I do believe that Sid Meier should nevertheless take back the reigns of his legendary series once more.
     
  5. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    just read that article. the part where he thought there was iron, then couldn't find any ANYWHERE, was somewhat prophetic, huh?
     
  6. kosak

    kosak Chieftain

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    This really opened my eyes

    So basically he wasn't the most qualified lead designer, he was the most qualified designed who could also program

    :eek::eek::eek:

    I honestly can't fathom why they would need to do this? Are they saving money by having 1 less programmer on the team? Does the lead designer need to be very intimate with the code?

    I think as a designer my goal would be to flesh out the basic ideas and then work on the details. If I have to also code it I am going to go for the ideas that are easiest to code... no? Does that explain why there's no end-game turn-by-turn world map??
     
  7. jagdtigerciv

    jagdtigerciv Prince

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    Oh god... You want CivRev 2? What's with the Sid Meier praise?
     
  8. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    @kosak: b/c sid wants the lead designer to also be a programmer.
     
  9. MaximusDarcy

    MaximusDarcy Chieftain

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    Shafer was given the keys to an empire that had stood the test of time.

    He then went and gave all our tech and good ideas to the romulans and made our lovely game suck.
     
  10. Hail

    Hail Satan's minion

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    i don't see this as especially bad. probably firaxis wants their game devs to stay on solid ground (as opposed to flying into the sky with crazy ideas, that have no chances of being implemented)

    it's called reputation. obviously Sid Meier's reputation is over 9000

    you mean that Shafer was something like a Trojan Horse? :eek:
    :lol:
     
  11. MaximusDarcy

    MaximusDarcy Chieftain

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    Why did i not see it before!
     
  12. CyberTyrant

    CyberTyrant Emperor

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    Pretty much.
     
  13. Zyxpsilon

    Zyxpsilon Running Spider

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    Multi-tasking, Skills in plenty of related functions, Imagination, Experience, Team Managing, Vision, Dedication, Personality, Negotiable Salary -- nuf'said.
     
  14. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

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    All the longing for Civ 6 ... but what should it be?

    "Civ IV A prettier face" (Just a graphics makeover of BTS)?

    "Civ 5 Return of the Stacks"? (Substitute for stacks: religions, or sliders, or espionage, or corporations, or civics, or production ... you get the idea).

    Civ IV Curse of the hex? (Civ IV with hexes)?

    Do we even know what we want?

    dV
     
  15. Mark the Bold

    Mark the Bold Warlord

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    This comment reminds me of people who review products on newegg and amazon and have never even owned the product in question. No offense, but it strikes me as awfully pretentious to comment on a game you've never even tried, and based your opinion entirely on people's comments in this forum.

    I am a proud owner of Civ 5. Got my $50 worth and then some. However, if I based my opinions of Civ 5 based on what I read on this forum alone, I would be forced to equate playing Civ 5 to medieval torture and believe strongly that the entire Firaxis Development team were the chosen hell spawn of Satan who eat babies in their spare time.

    I hope you are well aware of the "hate effect" on the world wide web. In brief, let me explain it by posing you a question: If I created two websites; one called and easily google-search associated with "www.ilovejohnschafer&civ5.com" and the other is "www.ihatejohnschafer&civ5.com". Which website will generate the most hits over any given month? I guarantee you the hate one will by a margin of over 10 to 1. Just look at this forum; every other week some self-righteous dude creates YET another "i hate this game thread" and it goes to 12+ pages easy. All the "who's your favorite civ" and "I had a great game last night" die quick deaths and quickly become forgotten on the back pages of the general discussions forum. So as soon as any person signs into the civfanatics.com forum all they see are "Civ 5 is the devil" posts on the first three pages. Perfect example are the trolls on this thread alone wishing personal misfortune on Jon Schafer for their displeasure with this game. Real mature.

    As everybody seems to hate the AI in this game, I started a purely constructive thread here asking the question " Give me an example of ANY PC game ever made that has good AI". Not one single example was given that had ANY kind of consensus. Not even Starcraft II. Blizzard has access to and the mountains of money to afford the best programming minds on this planet and they STILL can't make you guys happy. Instead we get yet another whining troll thread complaining about the fact that you still managed to outsmart a computer after 50 reloads. Yawn.

    There seems to be a grim satisfaction evident in the tones of most of the posts here regarding Jon Schafer leaving and all the wild speculation that he was fired because of this forum. Specifically, that Jon Schafer was fired in disgrace at your displeasure with the game. Who knows? But whatever the reason he left John Schafer came out on top. How can I say that?

    Jon Schafer has on his resume the one and only positive thing game companies care about when analyzing their products at year end: the amount of sales in the first three months of release date. Which were by all accounts excellent for Civ 5 by PC gaming standards. Somebody here said they were in the game industry and they can attest to that. The entire gaming business model is based on it.

    So keep insulting him and wishing future misfortune on him. John don't care. Right now he's probably sitting on a beach laughing his ass off financially, not ever even thinking twice about the ichor posted here.
     
  16. Venereus

    Venereus This Is Streamlined!

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    I've read the entire thread, and not one post says Jon was fired because of CFC. In fact, some posters have actually made nice pre-emptive post discouraging them. Don't make stuff up.
     
  17. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    Which did not happen, btw, when Civ4 was released.

    I remember even ridiculous threads like "Don't you agree Civ4 is the best piece of software ever?" which stayed on the first page for days, if not weeks.
    The fact that "praising" threads get buried so soon is mainly due to the fact that not many people agree.

    It is just that easy.
    Civ4 experienced an overwhelming response (at least in comparison), although it had many technical problems in the beginning. People were fine with the whole composition of game elements, even when a single element may not have fit their liking.

    The current game though is criticized for a multitude of elements, in many cases even for the whole composition.

    Nobody expects a humanlike AI today.

    But Civ5 would require one, as the fundamental design decisions are requesting it.

    In Civ4, the AI wasn't better. Especially not in the area of combat.
    But the game could make up for it due to higher production rates at higher levels.

    Given comparable technology levels, with 6 to 8 units you can stop any enemy in Civ5. Regardless of how many units the enemy has in the field.
    Yet not the other way around. The AI cannot stop *you* with just so few units.
    Which leads to the fact that you have to go up in difficulty to insane levels.

    Having had my problems at King level in Civ4, in the current version I am doing great at Emperor and still quite good at Immortal.
    I am not a perfect Civ player. Most probably I am even not a good Civ player. Nevertheless, I am doing fine at the second highest level.
    This is just insane.

    And this insanity is the direct consequence of a mixture of design decisions which don't really work.
    Combat is weak, building is weak, technology is a joke. What more to say?
     
  18. MadRat

    MadRat Cheese Raider

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    I don't think it is people wanting a human level AI; just one that provides an enjoyable game without the AI either blatantly cheating or leaving you feeling like you are playing against with a 2 year old that keeps chewing on the game pieces.

    Rat
     
  19. joyous_gard

    joyous_gard Prince

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    All this talk about good AI. I think we are being unrealistically optimistic about getting a good AI. It took like 20 years for chess programs not to be ridiculously bad. It took 40 years for chess programs to be competitive. Chess is pretty simple compared to Civ. Maybe because computers are faster now, programming AI is a cinch, but I don't see how it could be.
     
  20. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Well, Shafer was a good mod designer, he designed Final Frontier that shipped with BtS (didn't he also play a large role in designing BtS?) I just don't think he had enough experiance or fully thought through some design decisions (why did you have to remove religions? They were one of the most potent examples of Sid's 'one more turn' belief.)
    That said, it will be interesting to see where Civ5 goes. Will it get mired in a morass of incompetance, or will it get new life from a new lead designer. (Is Soren still there?)
     

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