Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis!

.

It is not an oxymoron. Do you have a job? How effective are comments like: "Bob is a douchebag," or "Jane ruined this office." Do you understand criticism? It has three parts: Analysis, Interpretation, and Evaluation. If criticism can include just two of these elements then it can be helpful and constructive. If posters say that a feature 'sucks' but don't offer any reasons why or suggestions for improvement then they are wasting their time, the developers time, and all of their reader's time. This is my problem. 25% of the comments in this thread are a waste of time. They are useless and hateful. They distract us from meaningful communication about Shafer's departure and what this could mean to civ5.

Agree with that 100%. The best way to improve just about anything is constructive criticism, (or 'feedback'). If someone completely dismisses this then for me that detracts from the rest of their post.

I'm struggling to play ciV, but am still loyal to the franchise because of all the great games I've had before - most of which occured with mods or expansions well into the life of Civs 3 & 4. I would rather play 4, however the fact is that 4 got alot better and so can 5.
 
In my opinion Civ5 is supposed to be one of the best turn-based strategy games ever.

I have to admit that I am a fan of intensive micromanagement and very very very large and long games. Therefore I always play on marathon speed and currently on the YAGEM map.

1UPT was a very good development coming along with huge maps. The main issues they have to wipe out are crashing and AI.
I could agree to mod in the rest I want myself but I can´t fix the crashing ... :rolleyes:

Anyway, despite he left I hope that these issues will be fixed in the next weeks ...
 
Thanks Brian! That kind of criticism is useful.

And to further illustrate my point that is exactly the kind of criticism being shown here and elsewhere (OK maybe not quite so hopeful as regards John). This is what all the nays (including me) have been saying all along, including in this thread.
 
Although I did not enjoy this game as much as civ IV, I do not think that Shafer was fired due to the "poor reviews" or "Low sales" (The reviews are pretty high outside of here, and 1 million is nothing to scoff at), and I don't think anyone would lose their job just because of some people on a forum (not trying to be rude to anybody in particular) . He probability had another opportunity elsewhere or Fraxis was trying to save money or something.
 
Civ4 had a lot of problems. Religion and corporations were not implemented well at all (and let's remember that corporations were in an Expansion, not the core game); the AI was utterly incapable of using them correctly, and the effects of religions were completely interchangeable. So to me, the removal of these systems was a positive change; when implemented well (see the DUCKS mod) it can be a great addition to the game experience. But Civ4 didn't do these well. And yet, a large number of the posts talking about how superior Civ4 was to Civ5 brings these up...

As for the rest, it's a question of taste. While I don't particularly like the 1UPT, I also never liked the stacks o' doom. Hexes are an improvement, IMO, but they have some drawbacks. And city-states are a great addition, in my opinion, but could be improved a bit.

I say that making Religion work better is an improvement, you say that removing it entirely is an improvement.

I say that making Corporations work better is an improvement, you say that removing them entirely is an improvement.

Problem is, which of the two (making it work better versus removing it) adds to the game?

The fact that some of them came into Civ4 via expansion is unimportant; they exist. Thus, adding to the game involves expanding their functionality, not removing them. By your own admission, implementing them well adds to the gaming experience.

I believe, as do you, that hexes are better than squares, but as another pointed out, by your own logic, as they implemented hexes poorly, they should remove them rather than improving them.



No, nostalgia also happens when someone has a blind spot to the faults of the old versions of things when comparing to newer items. Like how my grandfather could just never admit that an HDTV looked better than his old '70s-era TV, or that my Japanese car could be a better car in any way than his '88 Cadillac. He still had the items he was comparing around, so in theory could make a direct comparison, and it still didn't change anything. He had a bias towards the older things, and couldn't assess newer things rationally.

Nostalgia and wilful blindness are not the same thing. Nostalgia is specifically looking to things of the past that are no longer available, and then using rose-coloured glasses (or wilful blindness if you will) to gloss over the shortcomings of then-and-there.

When it's something that's right in front of you and immediately comparable, that's a direct example of wilful blindness. Except... it is most times, but not always.

My father preferred his old TV versus the newer ones (until the old ones weren't available anymore). My father and I both see slightly into the UV range; the image looks slightly different between CRT and LCD. I don't care about the difference; my father did. (I got proof that I was seeing differently in college when I marked the UV bands of mercury spectra. The teacher called foul until I did it again in front of him.)

The fact is that when I look at Civ5 and compare it to Civ4, Civ5 (for me and very obviously for many others) falls short. Not just of what I wanted it to be but explicitly short of their own advertising. The graphics are prettier than Civ4 but they still fall short in the animation, and the performance overhead for those graphics is atrocious. The immersiveness, the detail, the abilities of the game, all fall vastly short of what their own box blurbs say should be there. At this point I'm not comparing against Civ4; I'm comparing against what they themselves said would be there.

Jon Shafer was the lead designer; at the end of the day it was his responsibility for what went out the door.
 
Yes, and this lifetime total is 587,905, way less than 1.000.000. What gives? Does anyone have any conjecture where the 1.000.000 figure came from?

Steam doesn't report sales to vgchartz, only to publishers. There's been near on half a million Steam sales.
 
Steam doesn't report sales to vgchartz, only to publishers. There's been near on half a million Steam sales.

How do you know?
 
Here's my 2 cents.

1) I don't think most of the reviewers out there really played this game beyond the "ooh, isn't it pretty?" stage. And if they did, they can't have been Civ fans. It only took me one game to realize Civ V is NOT the inheritor of the Civ legacy as I know it.

2) If you like the game, good for you. But those of us that have been loyal Civ fans and shelled out our hard earned cash for the last 10 years or more have a right to be a little miffed since we disagree with you. This game WAS advertised as the next installment, aimed at giving us what we've come to expect. I have yet to hear a good argument defending this game as comparable to what has come before in terms of depth and that "just-one-more-turn" feel. Without these 2 elements, how can it be taken seriously?

3) All this speculation about Shafer is interesting conversation but ultimately pointless. The only thing that really matters now: what is the future of the Civ V? And Firaxis will be making a HUGE mistake (in my case) if they just let this game die. I don't spend $50 lightly on anything. If you can afford to, good for you. If they give up on this game without even trying to make it live up to their own hype, I should get my money back. I don't mind waiting for the first expansion for them to get it right. Civ IV developed that way and it was worth the wait. But in this day and age, it would be absolutely unforgivable for Firaxis to NOT TELL US WTF IS GOING ON.

4) And as far as the notion that they were trying to appeal to a wider audience... Well, that's great I guess. Everyone sane likes to make money. But the previous games were hugely successful without trying to appeal to the 'casual gamer'. Personally, this game is so dumbed down that I yawn at the thought of firing it up. If they continue on the current track, they will have lost at least one hardcore Civ fan so I hope they attract enough of the casual masses to make it worthwhile. The upside of course is, someone will step in to fill the void they'll be leaving behind. As another point of speculation: perhaps that is exactly what Shafer is doing now that he sees the direction they're going in the future. I hope I'm wrong about that. :(
 
I can ensure that I'll be working on Civ 5 as long as I'm able to.

At the time, Shafer had no intention of leaving? Either he saw the handwriting on the wall or something came up.
 
Is that how low our standards have gotten? It's as good as most of the other games on the market? Crappe ala mode may taste better than Crappe salade but they're both still crap in the end.

The game is still completely unacceptable. It generated sales largely on reputation. A reputation that it abused by lying to its fanbase.

There had better be some sweetness in the future to wash that crap taste out of Civ fans' mouths or this series is done like dinner.

I couldn't speak more true words myself.
 
Many may think that Civ 5 was a bomb . And I agree in at it is at the very least I was disappointed . However we would not be on a Civfanatics site if Civ was not still the best game in town . But yes it can and I believe will be improved . They have to much pride and excellence not to mention profit motive for Civ 5 and possible future Endeavors.
2nd point . I dont believe that any Wise Organization lets one monkey stop the show . I don t know a lot about computer programming but even though this guy was the lead I am sure there are very capable people who worked with him and helped him . In case he slipped on a banana peel and took a dirt nap or just decided to retire and spend time with the family ( coaching analogy lol ) I believe that Sid and the crew realize they need to improve on this . They will and have already . Keep it coming !!!!
 
Obviously the goal of CiV was to expand the audience, streamlining it extensively so more casual players could enjoy the game without getting confused about what to do. IMO a better way to go about this is to leave the options and choices available for the advanced players, and just automate or hide things for casual players. Create more advisor subsystems to handle all the "hard" choices. All of the gameplay mechanics were already well refined in Civ4. It was a pretty dumb design decision just to chuck it all out, alienating the fanatics.

There was what, a good 3 to 4 million civ fanbase out there? Just keeping the series in line with previous installments, upgrading graphics, AI, etc, and adding new elements is a guaranteed sell. 2K Games got greedy(er). What did they think they sell going in this direction? 10 mil? :mischief: They messed up hard. Gamers are fickle. One bad egg and the train, the franchise, can easily get derailed. I hope that is not the case here.
 
Many may think that Civ 5 was a bomb . And I agree in at it is at the very least I was disappointed . However we would not be on a Civfanatics site if Civ was not still the best game in town . But yes it can and I believe will be improved . They have to much pride and excellence not to mention profit motive for Civ 5 and possible future Endeavors.

It's possible to dislike and not have faith in Civ5 or Firaxis' current direction and still be a Civ Fanatic. There's still Civ 1-4, Colonization, SMAC, and (dare I say) CivRev.
 
Top Bottom