Jon Shafer Leaves Firaxis

Discussion in 'News Updates' started by Moss, Dec 21, 2010.

  1. Öjevind Lång

    Öjevind Lång Deity

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    Then - pardon me if I sound aggressive - then why are you posting here? Why aren't you posting in the Civ IV forums or - even better - playing Civ IV??
     
  2. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Are you really surprised that there are people with 18 years of Civ experience who like the accessibility of Civ V? I know people like that.
     
  3. Öjevind Lång

    Öjevind Lång Deity

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    Thanks. I mean it. :)
     
  4. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    This thread is about the departure of the lead designer shortly after the game's publication, so the question of how the game was received and how people think about it seems highly relevant, since there's an obvious connection. This thread seems a really poor example if you're trying to argue that people are spamming their opinions of the game in threads where they don't belong.

    Why can't he be interested in discussing Civ V (and/or the designer of Civ V) and not interested in playing it? That seems not the least bit unusual. I spend a lot of time discussing all sorts of things that I don't engage in directly myself. Including---but hardly limited to---games and genres that I don't enjoy playing but still have a substantial interest in.

    You could argue that no one should discuss games when they could be playing them, but then wouldn't we have to shut CFC down?

    Moderator Action: You should remember to use the multi quote button for multiple replies. I've merged a bunch of your double posts.
     
  5. aeligos

    aeligos Chieftain

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    OMG
    THANK YOU thank you THANK YOU so much!

    I had no idea about that lil trick. My cff forum is now set to 'black'...

    Awesomeness!

    -.-
     
  6. hennord

    hennord Chieftain

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    Year, it's kind'a cool with black! :king:
     
  7. Munchkinguy

    Munchkinguy Chieftain

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    It seems to me that many people who complained about Jon Shafer dumbing down Civ V don't remember that Civ I was considerably less complex than the latest iteration. If Sid got the kind of grief from gamers that Shafer is getting, Microprose/Firaxis might not have continued with the series. Perhaps Civ IV was suffering from feature creep and it was time to prune back and make way for new improvements in the next version.
     
  8. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Actually, it's not a very, very smart post. It only takes common sense to figure out that if you continue to release broken products (even on a popular brand), sales will drop. A large portion that bought this game will probably wait if there is a Civ 6 for CFC reviews or other reviews (I would think CFC reviews, since official reviews are worthless).

    Everyone always wants to blame someone. He is blaming people who bought the game. :lol: It's fans faults? :lol: because after Civ 4 success, they expect something just as good... and it's their faults for Firaxis making a crappy game?

    If there is a fault here, it's only on 2K and Firaxis' shoulders. They made and released the unfinished game. Same goes for any product. I don't know what logic you are applying to your statement, but it's some kind of reverse blame thing.

    E.G. A guy gets robbed.
    He says "Well it's his fault for standing there; the robber is innocent"
    <faceplam>
     
  9. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Why are those (favorable) reviews worthless? They accurately reflect how most people see the game.
     
  10. tom2050

    tom2050 Deity

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    Nice speculation, but it doesn't show on these forums. I trust the opinions of other dedicated gamers more than a review organization. In fact it doesn't even show on 2K forums (actually it does, because many of the discontent threads get shut down by 2K). Lots of people say they are going back to playing Civ 4. I even went back to Civ 2. Many are hoping the flaws get fixed, and I'm one of them. I hope Civ 5 becomes a jewel eventually, and whatever the reason Shafer left is, the company obviously had some type of role in it, so they may be trying to get a fresh face with a fresh look on how to improve the game.
     
  11. jacyp

    jacyp Winter Lover

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    Funny story, I don't recall making any statement about my personal opinion of the game in the post that I quote you. If you are really interested in knowing it, I don't dislike Civ 5, but I dislike some features that I see as wrongly implemented, and some of those features happens to be at the very core of the game.

    I was just giving you my opinion about why the posts that bother you always appear in every thread about the game.

    I doubt that I have many soulmates in this forum, since most people here complain or defend the game without giving any reason, while I provide plenty for both my complaints and defenses.

    By the way, is there any sense in stating that the opposite of "criticizing (or hammering to the ground, whatever) Civ 5" is "to play Civ 4"? You buy a game, the game is full of problems that disappoints you, then you forget about it and go play (or buy) the earlier version of the game? Weird concept.

    Last, but not least, if the people of Take 2 really care and pay attention in this forum like you say, then the fact that some points have been (or will be) posted "a zillion times" are of great utility for them to understand how much we value some particular points so they can stablish priorities in further development. For example, I already saw that it is your opinion that the game may have been rushed into the shelves for pecuniary reasons, thus it was delivered with some faults. That's a point that most people agree with and that's a point that have been posted a zillion times. And I hope they take that in special consideration in the future. On the other side, the fact that they removed religions hasn't been a point of complain that have been posted a zillion times, hence they have no reason to think about that while there are far more important things to take care, as our beloved zillion times posted commentaries indicates.
     
  12. Tee Kay

    Tee Kay Silly furry

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    Obviously people have different standards and expectations now than in the early 1990s. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    tom2050, did you go back to Civ 2 ToT? -In that case I will send you a pm.

    And to be more on topic of that thread: Civ 5 seems not to be the only game that was hurried in a style by Firaxis, that one has to wonder if this gaming company has any working quality control. For example in Civ 2 ToT, the unit sprites are completely missing the part of the defense graphics (the attacking unit is shooting on the other unit, but the defending unit does nothing). As the unit graphics of Civ 2 ToT for a lot of civers are considered the worst unit graphics of any version of the Civ series and therefore nearly nobody tried to do some other animated unit graphics for Civ 2 ToT, this is not so common knowledge.

    In Civ 3, a patch for Civ 3 vanilla fixed the submarine bug, in the later expansions this bug was there again and never fixed. In fact the missing final patch for Civ 3 was never done - and I´m really upset about this.

    Civ 4 in the vanilla version on my pc was not really playable so that pc exceeded the requested minimal settings. Big parts of the expansions were not playable for a long time.

    So I decided not to buy Civ 5 -at least not short after the release. The history of Firaxis shows, that you get a working patched version of your civ game very lately - if ever (see the missing final patch for C3C or the never fixed graphic sprites for Civ 2 ToT).

    The problems in Civ 5 are not the fault of the lead-designer, but a general problem of the company (Firaxis). I wonder, if other civers ever will learn, not to buy the rushed products of Firaxis- at least not short after the release.
     
  14. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Of course it doesn't show on these forums. If you want the opinions of CFC members, you have to ask CFC members. If you want the opinions of the gaming public at large, you have to ask the gaming public at large. That seems pretty obvious.

    External reviewers generally are drawn from that general audience, are targeting their reviews at that general audience, and their reviews do reflect the attitudes of that general audience. You can't expect their reviews to reflect your point of view, because you're part of a niche audience. That's why you're posting here.

    You definitely shouldn't expect those reviewers from the general gaming community to reflect what you like. That's not their job. They are supposed to reflect what the general public likes. And they do that pretty well.
     
  15. The Government

    The Government Chieftain

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    I go on forums to discuss strategies of games I like. Why would I go and discuss how to play hopscotch if I hate playing it? If complaining about a game you didn't like is more fun for you than playing a game you do like then civ V has brought more enjoyment/fun to your life than civ IV. Hence by your terms of fun, CiV is better.
    You find me tedious but you won't ignore me. I go on forums to discuss CiV strategies, ideas, tips and polls but it's sometimes hard to do that because there are so many people just going on about how bad it is.
    I completely agree, when will we be left in peace to discuss CiV without getting attacked?
     
  16. Bhoy

    Bhoy Chieftain

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    I stay off these forums for long periods of time, I barely posted after the release of Civ4 BTS.

    What I have realised about myself is that I only seek out the opinion and advice of others when I'm not happy with the situation. A content person is happy to drift along in life. It's the reason why half the population of developed countries don't bother to vote, it's the reason why I didn't bother to come on these forums for years at a time, and it's the same reason why I've been unusually active since I bought Civ5.

    Discontent spurs people to action which is why you will find so many haters on a Civ5 forum telling people they have stopped playing Civ5.
     
  17. jacyp

    jacyp Winter Lover

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    You clearly miss my point. I'm not saying "go away, go play the game you like and don't come to the forums", this would be something that you would say based on the post I've quoted. You said that about people who don't like the game. But people who don't like (notice that I didn't say "hate" in any moment, I'm talking about people unsatisfied with the game, which is a right of every customer) also has motives and reasons to come to the forum, follow the later news about the game they've bought and express their content or discontent about the mentioned news or any other aspect of the game.

    If you can't understand such simple thing, then there's nothing I can do for you.

    To discuss something isn't to throw a party with only people who agree with you. If you can't stand a disagreement of opinion, then you are unable to discuss anything.

    If you're seeing too many people with one opinion that you think it's a mistake, try to present valid arguments so other people can, at least, understand your point of view. To say simply "if you don't like this game then go away from this game's forum!" doesn't help at all if you think the problem is people who just complain with no reason. Cos you just did that.
     
  18. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    No, I don't find you tedious, more like clueless. Why are you trying to discuss "CIV strategies, ideas, tips, and polls" in a thread entitled "Jon Shafer leaves Firaxis", in the "News Updates" forum? You're just in entirely the wrong thread. So no wonder you find the content here isn't what you're looking for.

    This forum and thread are for discussing the fact that the designer is leaving the company, what that means or might suggest, how we feel about that. If you want to discuss Civ 5 strategies, there's a whole forum for that, why can't you go read that forum and unsubscribe to this one?
     
  19. aeligos

    aeligos Chieftain

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    I spent another 4 hours on Civ V lastnight....playing instead of troubleshooting.

    If Shafer is gone then he is gone. Why he is gone matters not...to me anyway. I still enjoy the game as it is...different in its non-Civ IV ways.

    The game is good.

    Shafer...who?

    Enjoy the game.

    -.-
     
  20. The Government

    The Government Chieftain

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    Fair enough, but just stay out of the strategy forums talking about how bad CiV is. Not you individually, anyone. I'm just trying to get people out of those forums. Have fun insulting Jon Shafer again.
     

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