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Jotnar - Giant Civ for Fall from Heaven. Download Here.

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by Arctic Circle, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    14,450
    Location:
    Crestview FL
    Hmm... trying it that way didn't work either. Same problem... I know better than to copy from a specific line to the exact same number line, and made sure to copy to the area in the code that it's supposed to be. The only place I can see where the two codes might interfere is in the CvGameUtils. Came out looking like this, not sure what I'm doing wrong. Never actually done this before though, so I'm not surprised it's not working. :lol:

    Code:
    	def cannotDoCivic(self,argsList):
    		ePlayer = argsList[0]
    		eCivic = argsList[1]
    		if eCivic != gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVIC_TRADITIONS'):
    			if gc.getPlayer(ePlayer).getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR'):
    				if gc.getCivicInfo(eCivic).getCivicOptionType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVICOPTION_GOVERNMENT'):
    					return True
    				else:
    					return False
    			else:
    				return False
    		else:		
    # Scions start
    		if eCivic == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVIC_SLAVERY'):
    			if gc.getPlayer(ePlayer).getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS'):
    				return True
    		if eCivic == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVIC_CONQUEST'):
    			if gc.getPlayer(ePlayer).getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_SCIONS'):
    				return True				
    # scions end
    
    		return False
    
    Edit: Turns out all I had to do was indent the Scions code.. Thank you Odalrick for pointing it out. :D

    Edit 2: Damn. Didn't realize you disallowed the AI from playing the Jotnar..... there go my dreams of Undead/Giant alliances. :D
     
  2. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    I might make a stand-alone version for Fall From Heaven with 1.0. I am going to take a break from this project for a few weeks, but my focus afterwards will be balance, unit tweaking (for example sea serpent and triton) and cranking up the graphics a notch. A quantum.

    F**K :mad:

    Yes. My blunder. I'll make a new one.

    If you make it work, I'm smiling widly. And go post it for others to use if you want to. I'm sure a few would like to use both Scions and Jotnar. If you'd like, and I know you've said that Scions are 'more or less done'. I can use your merged version as a foundation to make Jotnar 1.0.

    Its just for now. If you want to, its very easy to change. But I wanted to release it with no AI as default for two reasons.

    1. I havn't tested it with Jotnar run by AI.
    2. If you want to try Jotnar you can just install it ontop of Fall Further, and if you don't like it you just avoid choosing them as a race. They will never pop up as an random AI opponent.

    Thank you all for your input. ;)
     
  3. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    NOTE to self. Put in orkish axemen (a special jotnar unit) with requirements bronze working, warefare and code of laws - not buildable until armageddon counter 50+. Cannon fodder, cheap production (75% of normal axemen, the Clan have warrens), cost not unhappiness/war-weariness when dies, cost not maitnance, -40% city defence. As the Jotnar numbers dwindle and less and less Jotnar is born, they enlist orcs whom impressed with the giant-kins pure strength flock under the Jotnar banners.

    DONE

    Also add some high-armageddon events for Jotnar that give some additional recruits 'barbarian' units with a bunch of promotions.
     
  4. countjackula

    countjackula Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Behind you. Duck!
    I am trying out the Jotnar with Fall Further for the second time. The first attempt was cut short by an evil Barbatos the Lich. I was allowed to change government civics, and I am currently running God King. The Jotnar don't seem to be blocked from using any of the other government civics either, but I'm only on turn 132 and haven't unlocked them all to verify that. The restriction to the Traditions civic doesn't appear to be working. Also, if the Jotnar population suffers from happiness penalties when another player switches to Republic and they can't, well that might be a problem. Perhaps make the Jotnar immune to unhappiness caused by not running the Republic civic when another player is using Republic? You could make that one additional effect of the Traditions civic.

    I examined one of my cities and found it is working two tiles that are two squares away. I developed those squares for an upcoming settler, and was surprised to see Vindrastaed wasn't restricted from using them. The "one square use" rule doesn't appear to be working either. Also, do you intend for this rule apply to the City of a Thousand Slums wonder (founding city can work 3 tiles)?

    The same city is currently population size ten and growing, so it looks like a Jotnar city can grow above ten as well. EDIT: Yes, I was able to grow Vindrastaed to population size 11.

    Some general observations so far:
    - I like the Jotnar banner. Nice choice.

    - Egrass the Founder is a great worker/builder! I'd love to have more workers like this. :D I also enjoyed starting many fires in "friendly" ancient forests. It is a good way to slow down that elf and keep her out of my hair.

    - Thrall militia are incredibly weak. I am playing with raging barbarians turned on. Even if I park a worker in a city for safety, they are the default defender as they are stronger than the militia thralls (2/2 vs 1/2). I have some spare militia "floaters" to use as defense fodder if a big enemy stack comes, but am only keeping one militia in each city to keep the population happy that they have "military protection". In truth it is my workers and Egrass that do any defending when necessary. An attack 1/defense 2 militia is very weak, even versus the lowliest of goblins. This almost necessitates building on a hill for the extra defense bonus. Doing so certainly makes it easier.

    - With the Jotnar leader's philosophical trait, Pacifism, House of the Ancestors building, a great starting location (two floodplains cottages, one gold mine, and two wineries), and the ability to adopt the God King civic, I was able to pop multiple academies quickly and skyrocket my research. This lead to me quickly discovering drama first. I used the free artist to create a great work and really culture bomb my borders outward. I am miles ahead of everyone. My starting location is superb and the Jotnar leader has the philosophical trait, but being able to use God King on top of that made it even better. I am not a very experienced player, but I feel like I can make Great People even easier than the Sidar race can. Perhaps this is an overpowered combination of synergies? I'm not saying it definitely is, I'm just offering this up for thought. As noted above, if the Jotnar are meant to be blocked from all government civics other than Traditions, that isn't working.

    - That amazing science output coupled with the leader trait to build wonders 50% faster made getting The Great Library very easy very soon as well. This is perhaps balanced by the Jotnars slower military production. I am doing okay in single player versus the AI and raging barbarians, but if Orthos or a human player in multiplayer showed up early, I don't think I would have a chance. Next game, I'll try to see how fast I can get a Hill Giant defense going.

    - The one square city rule (a 3x3 grid of nine tiles), although not working, seems fine by me. It is how I've set my cities up and have done something similar before with Clan of Embers (4x4 grid). Tight cities are easier to defend because they can share defense troops, and my Jotnar defenses are weak so that works together. A new city can work any of its tiles right away, and it seems easier to push my cultural boundaries this way as well. The Traditions civic has a nice synergy with the "one square rule", having most of the benefit of the City State civic without having any City States drawbacks so if I am really supposed to be restricted to Traditions civic, that would be acceptable.

    - Turn 250 and I'm suffering from a lack of troops. I'm teched out, wealthy, and incredibly vulnerable. I don't have iron or mithril in my borders and I lack a military to attack an area that does. I still have Egrass, and he's still busy burning my rivals ancient forests. I converted to Order for my two true allies, and made Sphener. I have confessor medics, a couple of mercenary archers, a Troll Hunter and am building Woodfathers but that's it. I managed to take one city, and could take a couple more weak ones with Sphener leading the attack if I took along my meager troops, but that would leave what protecting my home? Thrall militia and workers? Not at this stage in the game. Jotnar military production is getting a thumbs down from me at this point. Looks like I'll be using an Sphener, four Woodfathers, an upgraded to Titan Egrass, and some workers to bombard city walls (cool ability for a worker to have btw) to secure some iron to make four paladins. It's a decent attack stack, but still leaves little for defense.

    - I can build siege workshops, but can't build any siege equipment? Seems odd. Maybe I just shouldn't be able to build siege workshops being as giants can bombard anyway? The same goes for stables. I have stables and horses, but is there a mounted giant unit that requires stables? If not, why be allowed to build them?

    - Maybe I just don't know how to play the Jotnar? Could be. This is still just my first game with them.
     
  5. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Well, I managed to fail to include a file in the installation of BETA. Resulting in that you can change civics. You have a point with the goverment switching thing.

    NOTE TO SELF. Make Jotnar immune to the unhappyness of not having Republic.

    Why it is this way I can't say. It really shouldn't. Is anyone else experiencing it? I would like to carefully suggest the possibility of something funky with your installation. Try installing everything from scratch and see what happens?

    NOTE TO SELF. Make City of a thousand slums unbuildable for Jotnar.

    This should also be impossible. I'd like to refer to the possibility of a funky installation. Can someone confirm or deny this?

    Thank you :)

    YEEEES. Don't forget that you can use all Jotnar Citizens as workers.

    Thralls are very weak. But you build 3-4 of them as fast as ~2 warriors. And they have a very high city defence bonus.

    You are not supposed to be able to have God King. And Jotnar is a builder civ that is very good for a great person strategy - and with HotA in all cities you do produce great people approximatly +50%. Not something that is overpowering compared to other civs unique buildings. But I'll think about it.

    I've managed to stave off Orthus at the cost of 7 Thrall Militia. ;)

    Thanks. As mentioned, it took rather a lot of planning. However it is supposed to work..

    Jotnar is not a rushing civ, but if you take care of your Citizens and build for example a number of Wielders of Arms .. you have a decent army in end game. I am also creating the ability to mass-produce cheap cannon-fodder units for end-game. See my post above. Also Jotnar Berserkers, Jotnar Elder Trolls and other units pack quite a punch.

    That was odd, and I will look into that. But as mentioned, perhaps I should just remove the siege workshops? Same thing with stables, although I have a vague memory of removing them from use.

    I'm sure you've done as well as anyone. :)

    Also are you -sure- you installed the BETA and not the ALPHA?

    Thanks for the feedback...
     
  6. countjackula

    countjackula Chieftain

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    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Behind you. Duck!
    I installed from the "Jotnar BETA copy-paste folder" link, so yes, I am running the Beta but that doesn't necessarily rule out something funky with my installation.
     
  7. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Any chance you played alpha earlier, and now copied the BETA into the wrong folder. Best way is always to delete the whole mod folder and reinstall.
     
  8. countjackula

    countjackula Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    63
    Location:
    Behind you. Duck!
    Nope, I've only DL'ed and installed the beta version. I've installed four mods, several map scripts (Blue Marble, Perfect World, Full of Resources, and Flavor Starts), and replaced the Ancient Forest graphic with an alternate graphic mod. When I run Flavor Starts with Full of Resources maps I don't get tribal villages either. It is possible that something isn't agreeing with something else, and this is an issue that only I have.

    Edit:
    BtS 3.17, FfH2 032L, and FF 041D. Sorry, I've updated my FF version beyond Fall Further 040B. If that is the cause of certain functions not working correctly, I apologize for taking up your time reporting them. Hopefully, my other observations about City of a Thousand Slums wonder and the Republic civic unhappiness penalty for the Jotnar make up for that in some small way.
     
  9. Jhoniten

    Jhoniten Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    170
    getting python error and I am totally clueless when it comes to actual coding. I might actually figure out how to take a screenshot of this stuff one day.

    ArgumentError: Python argument types In
    CyCity.setCulture(CyCity, int)
    did not match C++ signature:
    setCulture(class CyCity {lvalue}, int, int, bool)

    edit:even an old dog learns a new trick. notice the warning about pop shrinking to 9. first time this eror appeared my pop jumped to 10.

    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG
     
  10. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    Have both of you installed the latest CIV 1.74, BtS 3.17, FfH 0.32, FF 040? Any of you have FF 0.41?

    Why you get this setCulture error I do not know. Clearly that piece of code (you get a small culture bonus when the city should have grown from 10 -> 11) doesn't work for anyone but I have never seen that error.

    Next version will be rid of that piece of code. Do you want simple instructions on how to remove that piece of code that seems to give you trouble?
     
  11. Jhoniten

    Jhoniten Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    170
    Forgive me AC, I got in such a rush to try out new civs that I missed the version number on FF. I had FF 0.41C at the time. If you can tell how to remove the offending code, I'll take care of it. BTW, played through the game anyway, Jotnar seems to work nicely with 0.41C, aint merged it with D yet.
     
  12. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2001
    Messages:
    3,715
    pythoncallbacks...
    Just left it out myself in one of the 041C patches. (Actually, I think I had it in but with a value of "0" - slightly worse than leaving it out.)

    That's probably the best way to do it. If I change any python I'll send you a note.



    I like that, and I do really like the Jotnar civ taking a "hit" as the AC goes up. Very flavorful.
     
  13. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    File: CvEventManager.py
    Method: onCityDoTurn

    if gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR'):
    if pCity.getPopulation() > 2:
    iPop = 10
    pCity.setPopulation(iPop)
    iCul = pCity.getCulture(pCity.getOwner())
    iCul += 50
    pCity.setCulture(iCul)



    Got to file indicated above, search for the method in that file and remove the lines marked bold. It might fix your problem.
     
  14. Jhoniten

    Jhoniten Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    170
    worked like a charm thanks. I changed the lines above that also to
    if pCity.getPopulation() > 10:

    thAt fixed the problem of city instantly jumping to pop 10 as soon as you hit 2.
     
  15. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    473
    I copied that from an old info file. Hmm, I am really sure that my online version doesn't have > 2 but > 10. Perhaps you downloaded your Jotnar BETA when I was fiddling with it and uploading new versions of the BETA?

    This is how it looks on the one that is downloadable:

    if gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).getCivilizationType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('CIVILIZATION_JOTNAR'):
    if pCity.getPopulation() > 10:
    iPop = 10
    pCity.setPopulation(iPop)
    iCul = pCity.getCulture(pCity.getOwner())
    iCul = 50
    pCity.setCulture(iCul)


    You must have managed to download the older one during the two hours I by misstake had it up. Sorry.
     
  16. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    Location:
    Location! Location!
    iCul = pCity.getCulture(pCity.getOwner())
    iCul = 50

    Remember to use [ Code ] tags :p

    Anyway, those two lines are interesting. With the second one you make the first completely useless. Did you mean to instead use iCul = iCul + 50?
     
  17. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

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    Messages:
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    The next version released will have some python added to that last Scions section in spellinterface.

    Are you planning to use the min/max age tags for promotions Xienwolf is adding to FF?
     
  18. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    Apr 24, 2008
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    Well. I was half-asleep when I made that. The purpose is to increase the city's culture with +50 everytime is 'should' have grown from 10->11 to represent the increased importance of the city as the giants leave and spread tales about their home staedding. Is +50 too much? +10? For a size 10 city, normally 50 is a drop in the sea?
     
  19. Arctic Circle

    Arctic Circle Prince

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    473
    Since I have no idea what that is about, I can only say 'if you think I should'. ;)
     
  20. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    50 is probably appropriate. By the time you are size 10 you ought to be pulling in about that much per turn anyway, and probably are not gaining population too quickly unless to aim for it, in which case you need a number large enough to be worth aiming for. So if anything it may be too small.

    As for what the tags are, they are PreReq's for your promotions which mean you cannot gain them until the unit has been alive for a certain amount of time (scaled by gamespeed). I think that my initial reason for making it had been your discussions about how the Giants ought to get stronger with age, and so it is perfect for you, especially combined with some other tags I have made :)

    If you set up a promotion which was:
    +1 :strength:
    PreReqMinAge: 100
    PreReqUnit: Hill Giant
    bNoXP
    bAutoAcquire
    NewName: Mature Hill Giant

    That would mean that any Hill Giant you kept alive for 100 turns (300 on Marathon, 150 on Epic, 67 on Quick) would gain a point of strength and now be known as a "Mature Hill Giant" rather than a "Hill Giant" (and in the case of the Stooges, they would now be "Larry (Mature Hill Giant)" rather than "Larry (Hill Giant)").


    I haven't implemented the PreReq Unit field yet, so it isn't quite perfect for you, but that is the next field I plan to work on. You could easily make another one which activates at age of 500 to make them an "Elder Hill Giant" and so on (though those numbers might be a bit too high of value).
     

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