Judas...

[Mr. Dictator]

This is a question to all the christians.

Should Judas go to heaven or hell?

Hell: He betrayed Jesus for gold and then hung himself.

Heaven: He did this as part of an ever bigger plan that saved mankind.

So in effect, Judas sacrificed Jesus' life for all of mankind...

or maybe i'm missing something.

of course this is all assuming christianity is right too.

 

[emzie]

As he's portrayed in the Bible, he did his part of a bigger plan out of personal greed. Just because what he did culminated in good doesn't mean he should be praised for it.

edit: on the otherhand there are counter points of view. I, for one, don't take Matthew's account as true.

There's also a 'Gospel of Judas'

The Gospel of Judas is a Gnostic gospel, the text of which was partially reconstructed in 2006. It has a strong positive focus on Judas Iscariot but does not claim to have been written by him. According to the canonical Gospels, Judas betrayed Jesus to the Jewish authorities, who then turned him over to the Roman authorities by whom he was crucified. The Gospel of Judas interprets this act positively, as one performed in obedience to the instructions of Jesus, rather than as a betrayal. This positive portrayal follows from the Gnostic notion that the human form is a prison. In this view, Judas helped to release the spirit of Christ from its physical constraints.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

This bascially follows the idea that if Jesus were God, Jesus would have known what Judas was to do eventually and still picked him as an apostle.... blah blah.

 

[GenMarshall]

Its not my place to judge if Judas is condemed to hell or in heaven. No mortal person can ever truthfully know if Judas is in heaven or hell. That is left up to God and his decision on Judas's fate.

 

[Arcadian83]

Technically, CivGeneral is right, we cannot know for sure.

Indications (betrayal, suicide) say Hell.

Argument for Heaven absolves Judas by refuting Free Will. Regardless of whether Jesus predicted his betrayal, Judas chose to betray Jesus of his own Free Will, and then chose to commit the mortal sin of suicide. Christianity does not absolve based on being a puppet of prophecy.

Edit: That is an amusing idea that Jesus could not have died for our sins if we had not chosen to kill him, however.

 

[Peri]

Its not my place to judge if Judas is condemed to hell or in heaven. No mortal person can ever truthfully know if Judas is in heaven or hell. That is left up to God and his decision on Judas's fate.

Is there any reason to suggest that Judas was not 'saved'?

 

[skadistic]

Jesus knew what Judas was going to do. So either he was part of something more like a plot made by Jesus and gang.

Or if you beleive Jesus was holy he knew because he was god.

 

[Peri]

Yes. I always got the impression that it was a plan between the 2 of them and that Judas was Jesus' 'main man' so to speak.

 

[skadistic]

Judas was very promenit figure in Jesus and gang. The christian powers that be seem to have used him as a bad guy scapegoat to teach a lesson about loyalty and greed. When held to a close look this realy doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Judas was very promenit figure in Jesus and gang. The christian powers that be seem to have used him as a bad guy scapegoat to teach a lesson about loyalty and greed. When held to a close look this realy dopersn't seem to the case.

didnt jesus give judas the task of controlling the money in the church?

maybe he knew judas well enough...

 

[Arcadian83]

How not? I suppose if it was planned it would not be betrayal, but Judas still hung himself shortly after recieving his money for turning Jesus in. Also, it was a bad turn for the other disciples.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

How not? I suppose if it was planned it would not be betrayal, but Judas still hung himself shortly after recieving his money for turning Jesus in. Also, it was a bad turn for the other disciples.

judas also gave the money away IIRC

so if he did that and hung himself, wouldnt it seem as if he regretted it? do you think he would have, at some point during his regret, called out to god to forgive him?

 

[skadistic]

Did he hang himself or was he hung?

 

[Peri]

But is there any evidence to suggest that Judas did not believe in Jesus? Getting into heaven is not difficult if your timing is right.

 

[JonnyB]

But Judas wasn't in on the plan. If God told him to betray Jesus or God compelled him to do it, then that would be different.
Judas may have done what was expected of him but it was still his own decision.

Did Jesus forgive Judas though? I can't remember, and that could change things too.

 

[Peri]

But Judas wasn't in on the plan. If God told him to betray Jesus or God compelled him to do it, then that would be different.
Judas may have done what was expected of him but it was still his own decision.

Did Jesus forgive Judas though? I can't remember, and that could change things too.

But we cant be certain one way or another if it was a conspiracy. Either way as long as Judas repented etc whilst he was dying then he gets in.

 

[JonnyB]

But we cant be certain one way or another if it was a conspiracy. Either way as long as Judas repented etc whilst he was dying then he gets in.

Agreed, but if he hung himself out of guilt and grief it suggests that he was not knowingly doing Gods will. Unless the suicide was also part of the plan.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

another idea, what if satan had taken power over him and caused him to turn over jesus to spite god?

is a man held accountable for actions committed while possessed?

 

[JonnyB]

another idea, what if satan had taken power over him and caused him to turn over jesus to spite god?

is a man held accountable for actions committed while possessed?

Good question, One could argue that Satans ability to posess somebody is due to a weakness in them, but I don't know if that's considered to be true.
Otherwise I would say they're not accountable for actions they could not control. A not guilty by reason of mental defect type of situation.

 

[skadistic]

another idea, what if satan had taken power over him and caused him to turn over jesus to spite god?

is a man held accountable for actions committed while possessed?

LOL. Legally I think you'd be off the hook since it was not your consciousness but Satan's. I more then sure a "possessed by demons" clause is in there somewhere.

 

[Peri]

Agreed, but if he hung himself out of guilt and grief it suggests that he was not knowingly doing Gods will. Unless the suicide was also part of the plan.

Or Judas didnt want to do it in the first place but did what he was told and could not live with his actions.