Jumpmasters 1C: We are a backward people! (C3C/Emperor/No Research)

[scoutsout]

Scout - it seems we may finally have put a team together and can get this thing rolling...

Yes, and I'm starting to feel happy about it. Hopefully SlickNick will get his computer straightened out and joing Roster B soon, and maybe we'll catch Javier and/or Manwaring in another game...

But I'm pleased that we've got a crew assembled now.

@Merum: Glad you could join us, welcome to the party!

For those joining us: I don't mind a little banter, spam, whatever. If you guys have questions, post away. If you have suggestions, I welcome them. My SGOTM team used a suggestion ("Mistfit's Gambit") offered by one of our Regent-level guys (who I no longer consider regent level)... so if you have an idea, post it. One thing that makes SGs such a powerful learning tool is that one player will often see something the rest of the team missed...

 

[Merum]

OK, I've spent the night going over this thread a few times. I hope I can do a good enough job to keep up with you guys. So the jumpmasters know my current level, I've gotten to the point where I consistently beat Regent with all randoms and am beginning to steal a Monarch here and there. (2 Monarch wins, 1 diplo, 1 space)

I basically agree with the dotmap for the city location, but what order? I generally try to place my fastest growers first, but maybe that's not so good at higher levels. A good mix of high-shield and high-food would be a nice start. (EDIT: d'oh! thanks bed_head for the pointer to the build order. )

Forgive me, but did I just completely miss the discussion about what victory type we're going for, or are we going to play it by ear for a while and see what develops?

hmm... more later, as I think of them.

EDIT: here's more...

Will we go toward the spices early? I'm thinking they might help with happiness with our large settler factory. Or would it be better to just use MP to keep order?

 

[bed_head7]

On the third page, 53rd post, was the order scoutsout said, and I think we are basically sticking with that, though we might go for the better food producers as opposed to just placing cities so that the AI won't want to settle. Since we have an island to ourselves, filling the outer spots and going in isn't such a priority. Or at least that is my understanding.

 

[scoutsout]

Lots of good stuff in those last 2 posts!

Victory condition: I'm thinking space race...for the challenge in a no-research variant. :devil2: but this is still open for discussion.

@Merum: Good thoughts on a mix of high-food, high shield cites. Take a look at what we have, what that cow town will look like when the cow is irrigated... and share your thoughts on the priority of sites. What hasn't been settled at this point has not really been prioritized...and is therefore open to discussion.

...and spices (for that matter, any lux) is a Good Thing to control at Emperor level. Good point.

@bed_head: you were tracking my thoughts nicely. I'd like to push south and southwest, because I think we can settle the sites to the north quickly... (less competition).

 

[Detlef Richter]

OK, here we go.
I hope i've dona a good job. It looks like a hard game specially with the Space Ship goal. We have no chance to come in front of tech because we ever need the AI's for research. We also can't eleminate too many of them. We need a big pool of searchers, because the techs are then cheaper.

My turns:

2150: i bought Mystik for 230g from Arabia

2110: Trondheim finnished a curragh, i changed it to pottery
i decided to use the curraghs for exploring and two warriors for Barb
searching

2070: 1 Barb killed, warrior looses 1 HP

2030: the second Barb killes our warrior

1990: Copenhagen finished barracke, i changed it to archer
I realized too late that we have not enough MP at our towns, so two
of them riotes. Sorry for this failure
I've set the lux to 30% until we have enough MP or more luxuries

1950: Bergen finished archer, i changed it to barracks
i use this archer to search Barbs, to protect our unprotected towns
1 Barb killed

1910: 1 Barb killed
moved 1 warrior to Trondheim (it's the biggest town and we need it as
MP)

1870: nothing happens

1830: MM Trondheim to finish pottery and growing to 4 at the same turn
(ready in 7 turns)

1790: checked AI's for new techs. Arabs will sell masonry for 180g + 3gpt
i havn't done so. They also have iron working but won't sell it

1750: Bergen finished barracks, i changed to settler (We need more towns)

Summary: 1 warrior killed, 1 archer build. Nothing news from our curraghs, we
only found some free lands (ilands). Netherland and Arabia are
technically in front. Both have the same both techs to sell
(masonry and iron working). We have 198g and +9gpt

2 curraghs
2 warriors
1 archer
2 workers
2 barracks

 

[scoutsout]

Looks good, Detlef Don't beat yourself up about the rioting. It's part of the learning curve of playing at Emperor level, and it takes getting used to. Checking the F1 screen for unhappy citizens every turn isn't fun, which is why I use Dianthus' Mapstat utility.

It also appears you got a taste of the Barbarian combat bonus at this level. That's one thing that still bites me, and got me in this game too. At regent level, that barb that came out of the goody hut never would have survived attacking a regular warrior on a hill. In this game, the stupid barb warrior killed our warrior, even though he was on a hill.

On techs: Did any of the other AI have Mysticism? Were there any AI that you could sell it to?

Something to think about: tech brokering. The idea here is to acquire a tech that once civ has a monopoly on, and broker it around the table to acquire other techs or luxuries. It will be helpful to us if we can recoup some of the investment on the techs that we purchase.

romeothemonk is up, and I think he said he was going to be away until Wednesay, so that turnset was also well timed.

@Merum: You're on deck...

 

[Detlef Richter]

I tried to sell mysticism to Babylon, but they havn't anything for us. The other AI's still have mysticism.

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Wow, miss a day and a bunch happens. Don't let me hold you up ..... j/k

Couple things though:

Detlef, you made repeated references to building pottery. I can see form the screenie that you play a German version. For future reference, POTTERY is the tech that allows you to build GRANARIES. Maybe nitpicking, but I found it rather disconcerting that you started pottery in a no research variant, until I figured it out.

Regarding that granary, we need to adjust the MM on it. Detlef said the he timed it so the granary would be filled in conjunction with growth. The granary should be finished the turn BEFORE growth. That way, it is filled automatically, and you get the benefit immediately. If growth and the granary happen at the same time, we would need to wait until the next growth before we get the benefit.

RE: tech brokering. The only way this works for us is when we meet the rest of the civs. That is why early exploration is imperative. If you have the choice between mapping the coast of a known civ, and mapping an intirely unknown land, go for the unknown. We can always map our rivals' coasts later, but we need the contacts now.

(not trying to step on your toes Scout, I have just found that a clear roster sometimes is easier for people to spot)

SesnOfWthr
Bed_head7
Scoutsout
Detlef Richter
Romeothemonk - UP
Merum - ON DECK

 

[scoutsout]

The toes are fine Sesn, no problem.... the order-of-go is better that way.

...on the language thing, you were nit-picking a bit... I don't know about you, but Detlef's English is certainly better than my German...but I like the way his screenshot refers to us as "Nordland". I should drag Longasc in here... I helped him with some English homework once... but I digress... btw, apparently there is a "Queen's English" version as well, because somebody is building a "Granarium" in another game I'm in. ...more digression...

@Detlef: Your log was fine. You'll get used to these language subtleties as you plays a few more SGs.

 

[romeothemonk]

I've got it like a pro wrestlers got steroids.

 

[romeothemonk]

More pics to follow.

 

[romeothemonk]

IHT: MM Trondheim. Must resist urge to start up science.
Turn 1: Copenhagen Archer to Worker (Listening to country music, must resist really bad joke here). Spices off our continet MB has hosed us as we cannot rule the spice market.
Turn 2: Babs start Oracle
Turn 3: Keep MM. Find a new continent to our northwest.
turn 4: Trondheim Granary to Settler.
Turn 5: Spot orange border, send curragh in northeast on possible suicide. Babylon has monopoly on writing.
Turn 6: Bergen Settler to temple, Copenhagen worker to archer.
Turn 7: Contact greece in Northeast. Trade Myst and 30 gold and get masonry. Everything doesn't get s writing.
Turn 8: Babs start colossus. Contact England. This is the motherload. Trade Masonry for the Wheel and 10 gold. Trade myst for IW. Get writing from babs for IW and Myst. Wheel gets 154 gold from Arabs and 70 gold from Greece. Build some embassies. (see pics)
Turn 9: Trondheim settler to temple, lux to ZERO.
Turn 10: Found Reykjavik, start worker. Greece has math and will trade to us. The babs are the only other ones with writing, although the dutch have 166 gold. Team call, but I say get the gold, but trade to greece first. Many units unmoved. I say settler goes just north of the northmost spices to found Kessel (for all you Star Wars fans in the house). Enjoy
Somebody's gonna give you a lesson....

 

[scoutsout]

That was some nice trading there romeo... but ... why did you start a temple? We pay full price for those, and Trondheim is a settler pump... why interrupt it for a temple? Since we're not spending anything on research, we can afford a little lux tax...

It looks like Merum will get to do a little tech trading right off the bat... I'm not sure exactly who has what, so I may download this and have a look...

 

[romeothemonk]

The only known tech we are down is Math, which the Greeks have a monopoly on. Everyone but us lacks at least one tech.
I started the Temples because I am a monk. J/K Our pumps need primed, and a little growth and happiness will help do that. Both can be easily switched, but by my calcs Trondheim needs to be 5-7 to have the really good settler pumps and was only at size 3. Plus at size 5 we needed 20 percent lux. Another lux hooked up, and a temple should keep our people happy, plus I am greedy. I like the gold.
Sorry to those that do not know me, but my posting style is eclectic at best.
Sombody's gonna give you a lesson... is a country song from the mid 70's that just happened to be playing when I was finishing my set. I am a bit of a hillbilly and enjoy both kinds of music, Country and Western.
Don't worry y'all, Ize a won't goa talkin all dixie on y'all. (Minnesota native doncha know).
Boy I'm rambling.

 

[scoutsout]

Okay - so Trondheim needs to grow - I can believe that. I'm just not very fond of temples.... barracks, units... another curraugh... all of those are less than 60 shields. I suspect Trondheim will grow quickly with a granary and the surplus food that's there...

 

[SesnOfWthr]

Yes you were rambling a bit there Romeo.

Indeed nice trading. I'm game for swapping for math and grabbing the gold. If we don't have a monopoly on it then it won't do us much good soon.

 

[Merum]

Got it. Very late, will play tomorrow night.

 

[Detlef Richter]

AAhhhhh, granery,pottery, masonry.............sorry guys i'm no searching my dictionary to learn a little bit.

 

[Detlef Richter]

Regarding that granary, we need to adjust the MM on it. Detlef said the he timed it so the granary would be filled in conjunction with growth. The granary should be finished the turn BEFORE growth. That way, it is filled automatically, and you get the benefit immediately. If growth and the granary happen at the same time, we would need to wait until the next growth before we get the benefit.

Is this correct?? If yes, then i had an misunderstanding. I thought we must finish it at the same turn to use the Bonus.

 

[scoutsout]

Is this correct?? If yes, then i had an misunderstanding. I thought we must finish it at the same turn to use the Bonus.

This is a minor point, but it will get the settler factory going a turn or two faster. The idea is that the food bin is emptied when the city grows. If you get the granary built before city growth, then the food that is in the food bin is automatically used to fill the granary.

Usually all that is required is to take a citizen off a high food tile and put them on a forest for a few turns. This will usually slow growth and add shields so that the granary is built just before the city grows.

Ideally, we want the city to grow to size 5 before we start making settlers again. This is why romeo set the queue to temple, to allow it to grow. I'm not sure we want a temple... my inclination is to build a curraugh or a barracks....

What do the rest of you think?