June 22nd Real life protest at Firaxis office

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Commissar_Yari said:
I checked the section you referenced and it only actually states that about the Steam software itself - it states that Valve owns the software, in reference to Steam.

However, the "purchasing a license" is the same of any hardcopy - if you read the TOS or the actual stuff on the label of the disc, or in the game's manual it usually states the same thing, that you only own a license, rather than the copy of the game itself.
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You have to check the Section 2 Part A where it defines Steam Software as Steam itself and all of your subscriptions(or games).
No one is paying attention to the fact that I said a LEASE to the license, as you didn't buy the license you just payed to get ACCESS to the license of the software. In this upcoming ciV, Valve will actually own every copy of ciV, and you as the user are allowed to play as long as you play by the rules(SSA).
 
Vael said:
You might want to find somewhere else to protest - it's up to the publisher what DRM is used.
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Representatives from 2K Games have been in the forums telling us the decision (to use steamworks for civ5) was made by both Firaxis and 2K together. The rhetoric is that Firaxis and 2K are for all intents and purposes one and the same.

Do you disagree then with what 2K reps have been posting here?
 
paradigmx said:
When you purchase ANY software, you are paying for a license, it just so happens that the license cost is a one time fee, it doesn't matter if it's digital or box copy, that's all you've had since the earliest software. If they sold you the program itself, they could not continue selling as you now own it, and it would be pretty ridiculous to sell a multi-million dollar piece of software for $60-$70.
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Once again, everybody skips over the word LEASE.
I am sorry if I sound agitated, I just don't like it when people don't read the entire sentence:blush:.
 
PieceOfMind said:
Representatives from 2K Games have been in the forums telling us the decision (to use steamworks for civ5) was made by both Firaxis and 2K together. The rhetoric is that Firaxis and 2K are for all intents and purposes one and the same.

Do you disagree then with what 2K reps have been posting here?
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What else would you expect 2K to say? That they forced the developer to do something they didn't want? When was the last time we heard from someone from Firaxis and not 2K on these forums?
 
Vael said:
What else would you expect 2K to say? That they forced the developer to do something they didn't want? When was the last time we heard from someone from Firaxis and not 2K on these forums?
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lol, please don't take my questioning you as an indication of my own ignorance of the motives at play. You'll find I'm inclined to agree with you. Sorry if I mislead you.

Still, there are some things about steamworks that I could believe Firaxis want. I don't think it's too far fetched that Firaxis weren't forced into this deal but rather agreed to it. It's nearly impossible to tell, of course, because the only people we are hearing from here is 2K. Nothing from Firaxis.

I'm wondering now what the upcoming Steamworks FAQ is going to look like. We've been promised it before the end of June.:)
 
IAmEverywhere said:
You have to check the Section 2 Part A where it defines Steam Software as Steam itself and all of your subscriptions(or games).
No one is paying attention to the fact that I said a LEASE to the license, as you didn't buy the license you just payed to get ACCESS to the license of the software. In this upcoming ciV, Valve will actually own every copy of ciV, and you as the user are allowed to play as long as you play by the rules(SSA) Valve feels like it.
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Corrected. Valve can terminate the lease at any time at their own discretion.
 
Yes, but in a democratic society, we are free to make a big stink about it, and, if one has enough money and is comfortable with the thought of lawyers, can even take it to court if they terminate the lease without a good reason.
 
Trias said:
Corrected. Valve can terminate the lease at any time at their own discretion.
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Yeah, but you really have to get someone from Valve angry, otherwise your just another customer. They have the ability to do so, but only choose to use it with caution. I mean already people are having bans due to "piracy", so why make more people angry.
Rant short, they usually use that power only when they have suspicion of a violation of SSA. Hey, its not the best system, but I want my ciV.
 
IAmEverywhere said:
Yeah, but you really have to get someone from Valve angry, otherwise your just another customer. They have the ability to do so, but only choose to use it with caution. I mean already people are having bans due to "piracy", so why make more people angry.
Rant short, they usually use that power only when they have suspicion of a violation of SSA. Hey, its not the best system, but I want my ciV.
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The problem here is that Valve has no burden of proof for show that any violation of the SSA has occured. They can simply say to the outside world we are cutting this person off because he has violate our SSA, and the majority of the people will think: good riddance!

The steam SSA gives the client basically no rights whatsoever. The client is completely at the mercy of Valve, and as Steam grows the can afford to behave more arrogantly. This is the time for consumers to speak out and demand a suitable open platform, instead of letting some proprietary system become the de facto industry standard.
 
I have yet to see one single instance of how Valve has ever acted as an evil corporation that was looking to profit somehow by terminating someone's Steam account for an invalid reason. Nobody has presented any proof that Valve's business practices are amoral or unsound. I'd be as eager as anyone to condemn a corporation for profiteering at the expense of the common people but I just haven't seen any evidence of that from Valve. I also don't think it would benefit their business model if word got out that they did routinely ban people for no good reason. There are a lot of video game message boards out there where users freak out to holy hell about all manner of things that publishers do, but again I've not seen a thread where Valve and the Steam software were exposed as some malicious corporate scheme.

In my opinion Firaxis wanted to enhance the next generation of Civ with more robust multiplayer and online functionality. To do this you need a common online platform that all users can independently access and interact upon. Does Firaxis or 2K games already have an enterprise level online portal system to link together thousands of users at the same time? What would the infrastructure for something like that cost to build and maintain? On the other hand there is the Steam software system which is already being used by millions of PC Gamers, offers Digital Distribution, automatic updates, multiplayer matching, friends lists and achievements all in one central location. Why wouldn't they go with this solution which already has a favorable image in the PC gaming community?
 
I agree with Model Citizen. I find it highly unlikely that they (beibng the corporation) could find a motivation to terminate an account for an invalid reason.
That being said, they could terminate an account for what looks like a valid reason at the time.
I believe there are posts to that effect elsewhere (forgive me for not quoting them) and while I'm sure that the issue would be investigated and corrected. I'd hate to be the person deprived of my favorite game franchise for however many days it may be.

On the other hand individuals may take action to profit themselves (not necessarily speaking about cash here) one (hypothetical) situation that comes to mind is a disgruntled employee (former employee) deleting a chunk of accounts out of spite.
The analogy that comes to mind is law enforcement. While a police department as an organization would not abuse its powers to futher its own mandate, there may be individuals within the police force that would abuse their powers to futher their indivdual agenda.
Further, with it being unclear how intrusive Steam is on a personal PC, it is not entire outside the realm of possibility for someone to download files to your computer that would give Steam a reason to close an account.

I may be starting to sound a bit paranoid, but really this whole Steam is unlikely to affect my decision to buy Civ5.

Question to mod: Is it against forum rules to suggest that I myself may be paranoid?:lol:
 
PieceofMind said:
Anyone who argues that Valve is or isn't an evil corporation is completely missing the point.
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Do you mean the point of the OP (in which cases I agree, the thread has gone quite off topic), or the point of the last ferw posts?
 
Merovinge said:
However, what your asking for does promote piracy, and the current set-up is one of the best piracy-proof systems to date.
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That is totally absurd logic. Just because Steam isn't part of some product, the public automatically ends up being pirates? :rolleyes:

If the game companies really want to stop piracy, then they would be better off fostering good-will with the public so that we are willing to pay them for their products, not by shoving crap measures like Steam down our throats.
 
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