Jungle start

[Gokudo01]

so what's your new tactics to overcome the early game(without jungle UI) since the herbalist nerf?

 

[ElliotS]

so what's your new tactics to overcome the early game(without jungle UI) since the herbalist nerf?

Rush ironworking. Swordsmen rush is great at killing AIs and you can also chop down most of that damn jungle. I think Jungle starts do have it really, really hard now though.

 

[Gokudo01]

Rush ironworking. Swordsmen rush is great at killing AIs and you can also chop down most of that damn jungle. I think Jungle starts do have it really, really hard now though.

i tried this but i fall behind in science production and population.

 

[ElliotS]

i tried this but i fall behind in science production and population.

Yeah, you gotta bank on coming back with a vast empire.

On the bright side the AI doesn't start out as fast, letting you have a chance to take them with this strat.

On the down side the AI doesn't fall off later as hard, meaning you're not going to naturally overtake them super hard.

 

[Stalker0]

Get herbalist anyway. Get to university, enjoy a major science boost to start out sciencing your non jungle enemies.

 

[Gokudo01]

Get herbalist anyway. Get to university, enjoy a major science boost to start out sciences your non jungle enemies.

with all due respect, 2(.5)f1p1s is not a great reason to keep the jungle around when i reach bronze working.

 

[Noob Fanboy]

Get progress, try to get a religion with springtime, rush walls after rushing markets and archers, then rush iron working, focus on improvements and defense, enjoy the classical era boost, you can steamroll your neighbour with swordmen and catapults if you want, or wait for medieval to do it.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

I like jungle starts, they're usually ripe with bananas and luxury resources, plus they offer great defense.

 

[Gazebo]

I like jungle starts, they're usually ripe with bananas and luxury resources, plus they offer great defense.

Rife? Ripe? Punny.

 

[RAuer2]

I like jungle starts, they're usually ripe with bananas and luxury resources, plus they offer great defense.

+1. I also like jungles and remove as few as possible (same with forests).

 

[Gokudo01]

Did I forget to mention that I was playing india ?

ps : isn't it strange that i've got twice a jungle start ?

 

[Gokudo01]

I bump the post because I 'm struggling with maya( jungle bias )
I really don't understand how to manage ancient-classical without being behind. without my farm(triangle) near river, i feel so weak.

 

[CrazyG]

Now that farms have that extra base food for fresh water, Jungle is pretty bad in my opinion. If you start with your capital on a jungle river, mining does nothing. Animal husbandry does nothing. Construction does nothing. If you have no iron, iron working does nothing other than let you chop jungle. I hate having to research all these technologies that don't benefit me. The herbalist nerf really hurt.

 

[Owlbebach]

Now that farms have that extra base food for fresh water, Jungle is pretty bad in my opinion. If you start with your capital on a jungle river, mining does nothing. Animal husbandry does nothing. Construction does nothing. If you have no iron, iron working does nothing other than let you chop jungle. I hate having to research all these technologies that don't benefit me. The herbalist nerf really hurt.

Yeah totally agree, Jungles now are just awful. To be honest i am starting to dislike Herbalist change because that 1 per two tiles is hard to manage, hard to calculate and hard to understand. I am thinking that it might be good to revert the food change and nerf forests and jungles in some other way. But i'm not sure really

 

[tu_79]

I you think herbalist is hard to manage, then wait for caravansery.

 

[Gokudo01]

Yeah totally agree, Jungles now are just awful. To be honest i am starting to dislike Herbalist change because that 1 per two tiles is hard to manage, hard to calculate and hard to understand. I am thinking that it might be good to revert the food change and nerf forests and jungles in some other way. But i'm not sure really

yeah I don't like this change ( i don't like the pantheon too for the same reason )
I don't think we should mix forest and jungle. Forest starts are, imo, fine.
you can remove it with bronze working which is always good to get because you unlock spearman and reveal iron.
bronze working requires 1 tech
Lumbermill comes with metal casting

on the other side

Jungle can't be removed before iron working which requires 4 tech, is semi worthless early if you don't have any iron and you need barrack ( which is not on the way) to build heroic epic.
Logging camp is unlocked with machinery, provides + 1 gold

 

[Owlbebach]

yeah I don't like this change ( i don't like the pantheon too for the same reason )

Well pantheon is fine i think. It is very powerful.

Maybe it would be better to give food from Herbalists only from Jungles, but not Forest

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Maya in the jungle start are very strong, very strong early science and faith game, plus good defense.

Having said that, after the herbalist nerf, I'd be okay with relocating jungle chopping to forest chopping tech (bronze working) and logging camp to lumber mill tech.

 

[Gokudo01]

Maya in the jungle start are very strong, very strong early science and faith game, plus good defense.

Having said that, after the herbalist nerf, I'd be okay with relocating jungle chopping to forest chopping tech (bronze working) and logging camp to lumber mill tech.

I think maya can only start in the jungle unless someone else stolen their bias, right ?

and my problem was growth, not science as someone pointed a week ago when i first posted, you can get science from university too.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Gokudo, one of my favourite religious stuff are Mandirs. They protect your GP generation and give lots of food. Given your game, I would have picked Mandirs, built as many Kunas as possible and, if necessary, cleared out all non-Kuna jungle tiles, giving you plenty of farms and, with Mandirs, plenty of food to catch up on the growth.