Jungles

ridjack

Emperor
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
1,000
So I'm looking at a jungle-heavy start right now; looking over jungles and what they can get, I'm having a hard time justifying their continued existence as a Civ that doesn't specifically benefit from them. (Indonesia, in this case.)

Jungles get:

  • 2:c5food:1:c5production: base (Does Jungle Grassland still exist? I see none of it in my current game.)
  • 1:c5science: with Universities, at Education in the Medieval Era.
  • 1:tourism: with Zoos at Scientific Theory the Industrial Era.
  • 2:c5gold: with a Logging Camp improvement, which can be built starting with Machinery in the Medieval Era.
    • +2:c5gold: at Metallurgy in the Renaissance Era.
    • +2:c5gold: at Combustion in the Modern Era.
    • Uses the "farm triangle" mechanic, so that having 3x Logging Camps adjacent to each other is +1:c5gold: on each Logging Camp.
    • +2:c5gold:1:c5production: with the Entrepreneurship policy from Industry.
    • +1:c5production: from the Level 2 Tenet Five-Year Plan in Order.
This means a fully-invested Jungle tile, assuming a single 'triangle' for simplicity's sake would be

2:c5food:3:c5production:7:c5gold:1:c5science:1:tourism:

By the end of the game assuming I haven't missed anything important.

Basically, I'm having a really hard time justifying the continued existence of my jungles. It seems their strongest use is for :c5gold:, which is a relatively weak yield overall and usually found in abundance elsewhere in any case. The science and tourism are basically for flavor, near as I can tell. Even when Universities first come online, 1:c5science: per tile isn't going to make a significant difference.


-----------------------------------------------------


Am I missing anything? Do y'all have a use for Jungles when you aren't one of the civs that specifically benefits from them?
 
Jungle have their own advantages.

1) You just need Calendar to remove jungle resources, a Jungle start can allows you to ignore part of the lower side of the tree.
2) Defensive terrain, perfect for defending with just a small army (unless you have Iroquios or The Aztecs as neighbours)
3) Forest heavy - Jungle heavy starts can be really strong with Goddess of Renewal.
4) Bananas are a really good improvement, they get a buff from Granary, Herbalist, and Grocer.
 
Herbalist adds .5 food.

Also looking at the end game bonuses for a normal jungle is pointless, honestly by that time your probably not working any normal terrain for a lot of your tiles. So the better question is, how do they stack up in the early and mid game.
 
Jungles are pretty darn awful without special synergy and I usually chop them. Hill jungles especially should be chopped unless you are just desperate for food. But jungles aren't useless, sometimes they do get worked (as like the 15th best tile in a 15 pop city). They are better than a random farm, and sometimes an poorly located village would rather be a jungle mill.

Jungle aren't too bad, but the mid-game the jungle itself is weak.
 
Herbalist adds .5 food.

Also looking at the end game bonuses for a normal jungle is pointless, honestly by that time your probably not working any normal terrain for a lot of your tiles. So the better question is, how do they stack up in the early and mid game.

Right. My intention with this was to show that, even in the end-game with of bonuses stacked up onto them, they're pretty bad. This is also why I was listing out the tech and era each bonus comes online.
 
How is jungle base yield determined? I'm seeing some 2:c5food:1:c5production: and some just 2:c5food:.
 
Jungles are always 2 food 1 hammer. Occasionally the game displays incorrect yields, but the city will collect the right value, if not you have a bug of some sort.
 
I will say that the movement and LOS loss of jungle tiles can be critical for defense. I will happily leave jungle un-chopped even if the yields are worse if it gives me a defensive edge in warfare against a scary neighbor. Having a jungle tile near a city in an important spot can be the difference between an attacker's siege units being able to safely hit my city from afar or have to come in closer and being easily killed.
 
having jungles also benefit from workshops' 1:c5production: 1:c5gold: may be an idea? I agree that they could really use some love. they're almost never worked
 
So I'm looking at a jungle-heavy start right now; looking over jungles and what they can get, I'm having a hard time justifying their continued existence as a Civ that doesn't specifically benefit from them. (Indonesia, in this case.)

Jungles get:

  • 2:c5food:1:c5production: base (Does Jungle Grassland still exist? I see none of it in my current game.)
  • 1:c5science: with Universities, at Education in the Medieval Era.
  • 1:tourism: with Zoos at Scientific Theory the Industrial Era.
  • 2:c5gold: with a Logging Camp improvement, which can be built starting with Machinery in the Medieval Era.
    • +2:c5gold: at Metallurgy in the Renaissance Era.
    • +2:c5gold: at Combustion in the Modern Era.
    • Uses the "farm triangle" mechanic, so that having 3x Logging Camps adjacent to each other is +1:c5gold: on each Logging Camp.
    • +2:c5gold:1:c5production: with the Entrepreneurship policy from Industry.
    • +1:c5production: from the Level 2 Tenet Five-Year Plan in Order.
This means a fully-invested Jungle tile, assuming a single 'triangle' for simplicity's sake would be

2:c5food:3:c5production:7:c5gold:1:c5science:1:tourism:

By the end of the game assuming I haven't missed anything important.

Basically, I'm having a really hard time justifying the continued existence of my jungles. It seems their strongest use is for :c5gold:, which is a relatively weak yield overall and usually found in abundance elsewhere in any case. The science and tourism are basically for flavor, near as I can tell. Even when Universities first come online, 1:c5science: per tile isn't going to make a significant difference.


-----------------------------------------------------


Am I missing anything? Do y'all have a use for Jungles when you aren't one of the civs that specifically benefits from them?

Main strength from a jungle heavy start (for me) is God of renewal, hope to get some banana tiles and delay those and the jungle calendar tile improvements as long as possible.
On the other hand unimproved calendar tiles probably means I am not selling these resources ... so in the long run that isnt optimal either.
Kuna (improvement) and Longhouse (Iroquois ub) makes them useful, chances are that I will have better forest tiles to work anyway.

I agree that jungle feels inferior, forest is good, jungle is not.
 
(Does Jungle Grassland still exist? I see none of it in my current game.)
Jungles always chop to plains in the standard game, but I think some map scripts like Communitas have jungle on grassland, and these might have had different yields (3f) for a time iirc.

For me jungle was always about the university upgrade for beakers. I'd have to go into the game and see how much % you get from this in the current build, but I suspect it may be that jungles should have an additional beaker somewhere to make up for changes to the importance of science over time.
 
Jungles always chop to plains in the standard game, but I think some map scripts like Communitas have jungle on grassland, and these might have had different yields (3f) for a time iirc.

For me jungle was always about the university upgrade for beakers. I'd have to go into the game and see how much % you get from this in the current build, but I suspect it may be that jungles should have an additional beaker somewhere to make up for changes to the importance of science over time.
They do now, if you take Rationalism.
 
Back
Top Bottom