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Just a heads up on Sulla's new season of AI's wars

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by vmxa, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    That was fast for Mansa to collapse ;)
    Those guys are not playing many deity games i guess, i want 1 Euro for each game where Mansa got attacked and died or vassaled :banana:
     
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  2. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Wow Hatshy picked techs worth ~30k beakers before Rifling,
    Mansa often does this too..funny to watch.
    She was teching much faster than Mao, but..

    I also wonder why Sulla keeps the AP in, they complain about it every game..
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  3. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yeah, I too don't care much for Mansa as AI. However, apparently he has done quite well in this series in the past. It should be noted that vassals is off, so that probably helps him in some cases. Still, I'd probably never vote for him to win myself unless his start was just so good, and the AI combo. I picked Gilgs and came close to picking Mansa as first to die - probably would have but I was rushed to get my picks in today.

    The winner -
    Spoiler :
    Darius! Was quite a surprised. A notorious weak AI. But a combination of not being harassed early on, and just being able to get a much superior tech lead spelled doom for Brennus, who just could not tech.

    Interestingly, Darius and Giggles, the top two here, both lost their 2nd settler early game. (well, technically Gigs lost the city the turn it was settled - escorted by a warrior!


    The AP was indeed a factor here - really hurt Gigs more than anyone. But really what I've seen in most games as much of an impact to the overall results as folks make it out to be. An RDV would be one thing though, but I haven't seen that yet. Justy leveraged quite a bit, but the effect was more on dumb AIs that were going to die anyway...like Monty.

    I thought Gigs would be a bit stronger..and he did well despite many setbacks from AP and whatnot..but he makes bizarre tech decisions.

    Next game has a motley crew, with HC being the top tier guy. Expect a lot to vote for him as well, but I don't find him to be a particular smart AI. He tends to pick stupid wars and/or wonder whore. The Boudi/Nappy quadrant of the map is interesting. I'm inclined to pick either Boudi or Napster for this game, but I'm also afraid they may either cancel each other out OR it will be a coin toss on who dominates the other for the win. Wash tends to have rather bad issues with diplomacy. I haven't seen Rags in AI competition before either, so not sure what to make of him (and I forget his starting location). While often stupid, I have seen him be strong.

    ...steamrolled ;)
     
  4. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Mostly random yep, an AI that does well before still has the same chances in new games thou.
    Mansa usually gets Rifling very late, and serious attacks on him will often succeed.

    I think Darius might actually be better, slightly more balanced with an economy that can certainly match Mansa.
    They all make really bad tech picks lol (wave DR), Giggles also spent many units early on SB.
    Those early wars are really bad unless they get lucky. Even Brennus hurt himself, his economy turned bad and Darius could have defeated him sooner.
    Hatshy did also throw her game away on Mao.

    Agree on HC :)
    Not really a good AI, too many wonders and weak defenses.
    But he can do well (for AI standards ~~) on culture, i would always combine those 2.

    Rags i rate very low, have seen so many games where he expanded badly..hurts in those setups.
    Nappy i would say is strong, more balanced than other warmongers.
    Boudi has interesting peaceweight, and can get on good terms with both sides sometimes. Much depends on how her Reli spreads.
    Wash will have many enemies yup ;)

    Funny how Moai can really mess them up, there was one game where peoples wondered why is Vicky doing so badly..
    well she built Moai in her cap, bye expansion.
    Not being coastal can be a big advantage for AIs.

    edit: looked at starting posis..
    Meh start for Augustus, land looks rather bad for Church, fine for Nappy.

    Hmm coastal for Wash..but stone (speeds up silly wonder building) and Jumbos so who knows.
    Boudi looks squeezed in and has no copper, dun like that much.

    HC with the best start by far imo, which i find a bit annoying.
    Geez look at double gold waiting, and double 6f for his cap + lots of space.
    I think based on those locs HC should be favorite, not at all connected to him as AI thou.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    True..coastal starts can be a problem. And Mansa has bad starting techs for it. JC was coastal in his game, but better techs and he had really nice internal land...lotsa commerce.

    Ha..I forget which game, but some AI built Maoi in a city with like only 2 plain coastal tiles. AI are badly programmed for that NW.

    yep, HC fate depends greatly on whether he is left alone or not, and expands enough. He tends to be a bit aggressive though.. while obviously not a psycho by any mean...he does always seems to pick a fight with someone about mid-game even with decent relations with that target. Ofc, religion could factor for him as well as the AP.

    Poor Wash..I forget what his peaceweight is but for some reason he just tends to be rather disliked by most

    Really torn on Boudi and Napster. Boudi probably affected most by RNG type stuff though..sort of a gamble that could pay off. She sometimes seems to tech fairly competently despite building a lot of units. Those two are rather close to each other, so I expect they will either go at it or on off chance becomes friends, though that may do harm to either's chances.

    For some reason I still like Rags as a darkhorse here - although I do need to review the start positions again. (Sullla's changes some of the colors which makes me forget quickly) I know HC has a pretty good start and Nappy's is pretty decent (AH focused by that may be better for him if he actually goes AH first and ignores religion)

    edit for your edits ;) : Ah ..yeah...I do remember those golds near HC. Desert I believe, but fin makes em better. Ha...I still won't pick him to go against the masses. Plus, this game, like the last, there were no truly dominant top tier AIs (even though HC is considered one in Sulla's pool) so anything goes here I believe.

    hmmm...from my experience just in personal games, Church is somewhat competent...not outstanding by any means but he seems to put more focus in tech. His traits could at least help him hold out here.

    One of Boudi, HC and/or Nappy will be catalyst here...action centered around them. And Rags will just be Rags, but the question will be if he is successful steamrolling someone early and what he does with that.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  6. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Mixing up Rags with Augi?
    Rags not on the map from what i can see :)

    Just based on land available and personal experience, also not coastal, i will pick Nappy probably.
    Has Jumbos too, and might get along fine with Boudi. With no AIs that he hates close, he might go expand well and become really dangerous later.
    Imo very good potential for him, let's see if he messes up ~~
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    oh...maybe I'm thinking of game 8 with Rags. Sullla setup the leaders for game 8 today, but not the map. But there should be at least one more AI..can't remember.

    Napster was the first to come to my mind on seeing the lineup...probably will go with him or roll the dice with Boudi for fun, and for Warrior Queens everywhere ;)

    edit: wow...was checking the info page Sullla has setup and the pools. Stalin is a Tier 1 leader too. Never expected that, but I guess it is based on based competitions and Stalin must have done well in the past. Figured Cathy would be the best Russia AI, and even Peter stronger than Stalin.

    edit: Churchill is the one I was missing..doh. 6 Ais this game and I think 7 in the last 1st round game

    edit: HC's golds are actually plains and one is river...not sure why i thought they were desert
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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  9. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Watching these games I can't help but to wonder... how can the human player ever lose in this game, even on deity? ;)
     
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  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    We lose if we go (or are forced to go) brawling with the dangerous drunken giants before we are ready.

    One thing I came to think about last nights game was that even when HC was sprinting like a madman though the tech tree, his rifling date wasn't that much off from what I see regularly in my games.
    Alot of this is probably due to tech trading but it is a healthy reminder for me that it's abit like playing with fire when I trade away techs too freely.
     
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  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    That was an amazeballs game by HC!
     
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  12. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yeah, I hate him even more now. :)
    I was hoping SO much for boudica to learn him a lesson but no...
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I was hoping Boudi would teach him a lesson too, but there was not stopping that juggernaut unless he got ganged up on early. I was surprised just how well he expanded early. Ha...Augustus is a bad AI.
     
  14. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    fixed for you ;)
     
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  15. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    I don't know if Sulla views these threads, but it sure would be nice if he used BUG mod for all future AI games. We would be able to easily see number of cities, tech progress, and plotting/redfist for ease of reference, among other things.

    Other than that, highly entertaining, though not very surprising!
     
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  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Totally agree, fish man. However, Sullla is of the Realms Beyond crowd, that tend to emphasize purism in the game (not necessarily saying there is anything wrong with that), so not sure if he'd be open to including BUG, which I know some there think as a game-changing mod.
     
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  17. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Maybe not wrong, but playing without a mod like BUG feels like toooorture..
    tried this once, never ever again :)

    Most features can be done manually, like asking an AI if they have enuf on their hands right now, but it's a serious waste of time.
     
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  18. Fish Man

    Fish Man Chieftain

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    That's true. I can't play without BUG either these days. Then again maybe that's why some people don't use ease-of-access mods, because even though they technically don't tell you anything you don't already know, in practice they make the game easier by giving you a lot of additional info you wouldn't have known because it would've been too tedious to check otherwise. So I guess I get why it may seem like a cheat to some people.
     
  19. Fippy

    Fippy Micro Junkie Queen

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    Rags lost Nidaros to (raging) barbs cos his units have such high courage, that was funny :)
    Sure, when 20 barbs run around your city it's best to attack with Archers..
     
  20. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    He came very close to getting eliminated by barbs..basically an archer finished just in time. All he was producing for much of the early game was Archers.

    First playoff game should be very interesting, with some real heavyweights in the game. The wildcards are all pretty good too. Not sure I like Justy's land all that much. Willie has a nice start, but he is just such an inert AI sometimes. HC could get boxed in.
     

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