[BTS] Just another typical Isolated immortal shadow game with Wang Kon

[CGQ]

All this real world war and conflict got my civilization juices flowing again!

I just rolled a Fractal map with random settings. No huts/events.

Spoiler 4000 BC :

Leader is Wang Kong of Korea (Financial, Protective)

With grassland pigs and lots of floodplains I think SIP might be good. What do you think?

What tech do I go for here? If only he had hunting, I'd go straight to AH, so this makes it tricky.

My first instinct is AG>AH (farm a FP while teching AH then the pigs) but then again it's pretty early in the game.

 

[lymond]

Save?

I'd move the 1W with the goal of settling on the PH if nothing of import is revealed. (Likely resource 2E of settler though it may be a hidden one)

I assume those are pigs since you left resource bubbles off, so AH is def the first target.

 

[CGQ]

Save?
I'd move the 1W with the goal of settling on the PH if nothing of import is revealed. (Likely resource 2E of settler though it may be a hidden one)

I assume those are pigs since you left resource bubbles off, so AH is def the first target.

Added save to first post.

Spoiler Moved Warrior :

Moved the warrior 1W:

SIP?

 

[lymond]

Nah…PH

 

[CGQ]

Nah…PH

Done and done

Spoiler Turn 8 :

Settled on the PH:


Scouted around a bit while waiting for worker:

What does worker do? Farm FP while waiting for AH? Should I have gone Hunting>AH instead?

 

[lymond]

I think AG>AH the better move. Farming an FP early ain't bad and boosts early growth and settler production. Plus, Pottery early will be nice here. Just make sure you are ready to improve pigs immediately as AH finishes, depending on how that times.

I'm likin' that desert hill for the first city. Can help with a coupla cottages for Seoul and has a good food resource. Fish likely a backfill unless nothing better presents.

I"d have warrior maybe scout back over to that forest PH just to the West there and then move up to fogbust 1SE of the sheep...that covers a good area plus vision over the lake to keep desert hill clear.
Next Warrior will be pretty quick from PH cap, so he can do some scouting NE/NW a bit.

Not an abundance of forests in the cap. If horses pop in borders, I might be tempted to head to POT next to get a couple of cottages going. BW would be fast afterwards.

 

[CGQ]

I think AG>AH the better move. Farming an FP early ain't bad and boosts early growth and settler production. Plus, Pottery early will be nice here. Just make sure you are ready to improve pigs immediately as AH finishes, depending on how that times.

I'm likin' that desert hill for the first city. Can help with a coupla cottages for Seoul and has a good food resource. Fish likely a backfill unless nothing better presents.

I"d have warrior maybe scout back over to that forest PH just to the West there and then move up to fogbust 1SE of the sheep...that covers a good area plus vision over the lake to keep desert hill clear.
Next Warrior will be pretty quick from PH cap, so he can do some scouting NE/NW a bit.

Not an abundance of forests in the cap. If horses pop in borders, I might be tempted to head to POT next to get a couple of cottages going. BW would be fast afterwards.

Spoiler Turn 13 :

Got Agriculture on Turn 10:




Turn 13:

Moved the warrior towards the suggested area, but lions are in the way there.

 

[lymond]

Might as well go BW then since no horses. First city will be connected so TW not urgent.

Hmmm...could be isolated here

 

[CGQ]

Might as well go BW then since no horses. First city will be connected so TW not urgent.

Hmmm...could be isolated here

Spoiler To turn 19 :

Bears forced me out of my spot:


Worker finished farm with 4 turns till AH. This is where I get confused in games like these...


What do I do now? Mine a hill while I wait for AH or Farm another FP?

 

[lymond]

Bears are evil. Actually I like the spot 1SE of sheep for fogbust...should cover whole SW quadrant there.

You want to be on pigs the turn AH finishes, so you could start another FP farm and cancel action on the turn before AH finish. A mine requires a turn to the hill, and turn to get back to pigs, plus 4 turns to mine. So that'll delay pigs by 2 to 3 turns at least. It's the most important tile in your city by far. Less lack of anything better to do, mines are not all that important early. The riverside mine might get a cottage later anyway.

 

[CGQ]

Bears are evil. Actually I like the spot 1SE of sheep for fogbust...should cover whole SW quadrant there.

You want to be on pigs the turn AH finishes, so you could start another FP farm and cancel action on the turn before AH finish. A mine requires a turn to the hill, and turn to get back to pigs, plus 4 turns to mine. So that'll delay pigs by 2 to 3 turns at least. It's the most important tile in your city by far. Less lack of anything better to do, mines are not all that important early. The riverside mine might get a cottage later anyway.

When do I finish the 2nd farm?

 

[lymond]

Right after the pigs is fine. BW won't be in yet I assume so chopping not available. From there you can do the riverside mine to help with first settler. With pigs and 2 farmed FPs, size 4 settler seems good, which should give time for at least another warrior. Next settler can be 4>2 or 5>2 whipped,, plus you will have chops available by then.

 

[CGQ]

Right after the pigs is fine. BW won't be in yet I assume so chopping not available. From there you can do the riverside mine to help with first settler. With pigs and 2 farmed FPs, size 4 settler seems good, which should give time for at least another warrior. Next settler can be 4>2 or 5>2 whipped,, plus you will have chops available by then.

Spoiler To Turn 23 :

Took my chances and attacked a lion in the forest. Got jungle defense promotion.
Turn 21 second warrior is out:





Turn 23 AH is in and worker goes straight to pigs:


Found more seafood north of capital:

 

[CGQ]

Right after the pigs is fine. BW won't be in yet I assume so chopping not available. From there you can do the riverside mine to help with first settler. With pigs and 2 farmed FPs, size 4 settler seems good, which should give time for at least another warrior. Next settler can be 4>2 or 5>2 whipped,, plus you will have chops available by then.

Spoiler To Turn 36 :

Found another fish east of capital:

Perhaps a good future city site to get crabs and fish?

Finished pigs:


Got another warrior out just before size 4 cap. Switched to settler. Worker finishing 2nd FP farm before working on mine:


2nd farm done:


Worker building the mine. It's starting to look like we're isolated here...


Turn 35 mine is done:


Turn 36 copper is in, at the same time as 1st settler!


Looks like our first city gets copper! Loving that desert hill even more! Also found horse further NW.

(Worker standing on mine)

Now I know where to settle this city. Question is, do I go TW>Pottery? Where do I move worker? He's one turn ahead of the settler so if I move him straight to the rice it'll waste a turn. If I move him to mine the copper first maybe? Or put a turn into another FP farm until settler comes out?

 

[pi-r8]

this is starting to look like an isolation map...

 

[lymond]

No point in another FP farm. I would actually move to the forest 1N of Seoul and chop out a new worker. Obviously, slavery switch as settler moves to spot.

2nd settler will be whipped.

Pyongyang can build another buster or put hammers into stonehenge for now. Iso your gonna need all the extra gold you can scrounge.

TW next for sure. I often go Fish before POT if it has value, as it does here, since it gives a bonus anyway on POT. However, what appears to be an almost certain ISO situation, some early cottages are going to be very important. After specials, focus on shared FPs first.

The 2 hill spots with seafoods are obvious spots, but cottages and cottage growth is going to be essential here, plus close cities and tile sharing. So I'm inclined here to focus settling 3N of Seoul and 1S of marble. Both spots are close to cap and share a lot of tiles, including cottages. 3N of Seoul also has another benefit of sharing pigs at times when Seoul does not need it, plus it can get up a fast monument for fish and crabs later - a crab that can be shared with fish city later over there.(by time that city is settled it will have the crab to work immediately).

Note on monuments, if you need to build one. A nice approach if you have a forest to chop is to time, the chop to just before the invested production hits 10H (10H + 20 chop = 30H). So say say a city has two base hammers from center tile and working a forest, you can chop the turn it hits 8H (if it has another forest to switch to) or 9H if it will have no hammers to work). So 8H invest +2 base + 20H chop that turn = 30H. Basically just time it based on the base hammers the city has. Like a city on a PH may invest hammers into the monument even faster. Or you may have a 2H tile to work as well. But don't sacrifice growth unless you are in a position to get that chop, which really should always be the case when you really need a monument.

Thinking longer term here, with ISO a strong possibility, your approach to tech usually changes from normal strategies. Happiness is a oft a concern, and no happies seen yet. Monarchy could be useful to tech. You could also maybe shoot for CoL for the religion and the civic will be nice here cause you will want to pump scientists. You will also need Alpha, Maths, and IW as you focus on an Optics bulb, and later Astro. But those techs may not be urgent until later, although Alpha does allow wealth building. Another option is to use the first GS for an academy in Seoul and just tech Optics, saving 2 later GS for Astro bulb. Seoul should be a strong cap. (Note: avoid Meditation and CS)

There are stronger iso players than I though, so you may get some better advice from others.

Bottom line you want lotsa cottages early, and some cities that can run scientists.

 

[CGQ]

No point in another FP farm. I would actually move to the forest 1N of Seoul and chop out a new worker. Obviously, slavery switch as settler moves to spot.

2nd settler will be whipped.

Pyongyang can build another buster or put hammers into stonehenge for now. Iso your gonna need all the extra gold you can scrounge.

TW next for sure. I often go Fish before POT if it has value, as it does here, since it gives a bonus anyway on POT. However, what appears to be an almost certain ISO situation, some early cottages are going to be very important. After specials, focus on shared FPs first.

The 2 hill spots with seafoods are obvious spots, but cottages and cottage growth is going to be essential here, plus close cities and tile sharing. So I'm inclined here to focus settling 3N of Seoul and 1S of marble. Both spots are close to cap and share a lot of tiles, including cottages. 3N of Seoul also has another benefit of sharing pigs at times when Seoul does not need it, plus it can get up a fast monument for fish and crabs later - a crab that can be shared with fish city later over there.(by time that city is settled it will have the crab to work immediately).

Note on monuments, if you need to build one. A nice approach if you have a forest to chop is to time, the chop to just before the invested production hits 10H (10H + 20 chop = 30H). So say say a city has two base hammers from center tile and working a forest, you can chop the turn it hits 8H (if it has another forest to switch o) or 9H if it will have no hammers to work). So 8H invest +2 base + 20H chop that turn = 30H. Basically just time it based on the base hammers the city has. Like a city on a PH may invest hammers into the monument even faster. Or you may have a 2H tile to work as well. But don't sacrifice growth unless you are in a position to get that chop, which really should always be the case when you really need a monument.

Thinking longer term here, with ISO a strong possibility, your approach to tech usually changes from normal strategies. Happiness is a oft a concern, and no happies seen yet. Monarchy could be useful to tech. You could also maybe shoot for CoL for the religion and the civic will be nice here cause your will want to pump scientists. You will also need Alpha, Maths, and IW as you focus on an Optics bulb, and later Astro. But those techs may not be urgent until later, although Alpha does allow wealth building. Another option is to use the first GS for an academy in Seoul and just tech Optics, saving 2 later GS for Astro bulb. Seoul should be a strong cap. (Note: avoid Meditation and CS)

There are stronger iso players than I though, so you may get some better advice from others.

Bottom line you want lotsa cottages early, and some cities that can run scientists.

Spoiler To Turn 40 :

Settler out on Turn 37 and immediately switched to anarchy:


Turn 39: 1st city is settled on desert hill. Warrior kills barb 1S of horse and worker finishes chop:

Found riverside rice. Another potential city site.


Turn 40: Warrior finds wheat 2E of horses. 2nd worker will be finished next turn. Here's what we have so far:


Still haven't met any AI.

So now this is where I usually run into issues with worker management. If I move my 1st worker to the rice, that's 2 turns and it'll waste it.
What's the most optimal here?
Have both workers do the rice or one do the rice the other the copper? Or even have one worker chop the next settler while the 2nd worker does the rice?

 

[Fippy]

Both workers on rice is okay here, can road after farming which gets you on copper.
looks a bit more valuable than normal here in Seoul too.
Those 2 tiles are strong enuf for double workers over using one to chop, imo.

Seoul should prolly make use of it's great situation with a settler whip next.
Double seafood north can borrow pigs, while a worker there would also be nice it's not super urgent with an already improved strong tile.
1NE of pigs keeps the fish east alive, and you could start here with a monument whip at size 2

 

[CGQ]

Both workers on rice is okay here, can road after farming which gets you on copper.
looks a bit more valuable than normal here in Seoul too.
Those 2 tiles are strong enuf for double workers over using one to chop, imo.

Seoul should prolly make use of it's great situation with a settler whip next.
Double seafood north can borrow pigs, while a worker there would also be nice it's not super urgent with an already improved strong tile.
1NE of pigs keeps the fish east alive, and you could start here with a monument whip at size 2

Spoiler Played To Turn 49 :

Forgot to switch to settler after 2nd worker so I just let the city grow to size 5 and finished that warrior before whipping next settler:





Turn 46: 2nd settler about to be whipped, workers done with road moving on to copper:


Turn 47: 2nd settler out and heading to 3N of capital:


Turn 48: 2nd city settled:


Turn 49: Workers finished copper mine:

What to do with workers now?

 

[Nick723]

In the short term, a road NE of Pyongyang to connect the cities and give Seoul access to the copper (I don’t think they are connected now right...I’m not 100% on these things). Then likely workers will have time for one chop each pre-pottery. I’d put these into axes, it’s getting a bit fine on the barb timings (also switch Pyongyang to an axe now)