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Just for laughs, what would you do if...

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Simpson17866, May 13, 2017.

  1. Simpson17866

    Simpson17866 Chieftain

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    ... You had to play a Seafaring civ on a Pangaea map? Or a non-Seafaring on an Archipelago?

    Personally,

    Spoiler Pangaea :
    Byzantines – Yes. Early access to Spearmen, cheaper cultural buildings, and the reduced usefulness of the UU is made up for by how quickly you get to better units later in the game. If you have Cavalry when everybody else has Knights, then Cavalry are your UU. By the time everybody else has Cavalry, you'll have Riflemen and Infantrymen. By the time they have Riflemen/Infantrymen, you'll have Tanks.

    Carthage – Yes. Early access to the Pyramids, good if expensive early defensive unit, and Industrious workers can build roads inland more quickly.

    England – No. The Commercial trait takes too long to start working, and the special unit – of limited use already – takes even longer.

    Portugal – Maybe. Expansionist is more important when you're stuck off to the side of everything, but that's not saying a lot.

    Netherlands – Yes. A good defensive unit reasonably early, and my understanding is that the Agricultural trait works wonders on a Pang map.

    Vikings – Yes. Early access to Archers, both for the initial rush and for the eventual upgrade to Berserkers, and you start one tech closer to Horseback Riding for waging wars inland faster.

    Spain – No. The UU is going to be a non-factor, and the Religious trait does nothing for early expansion. The only real advantage would be the cheaper cultural buildings, and that playstyle would benefit more from Byzantine libraries than from Spanish temples.


    Spoiler Archipelago :
    For this, I am only considering Commercial nations. Only Expansionist and Agricultural nations start as close to Map Making as Commercial nations do, but neither start with Curraghs, and Scouts are basically useless.

    Greece – Yes. For all of the same reasons as the Byzantines: you get one of the best early defensive units right off the bat, and even if land units aren't all that important (I'm not familiar with Archipelago warfare beyond the lowest levels of difficulty), you'll still have a more advanced navy than anybody else.

    France – No. Neither the Pyramids nor more efficient workers are important when you don't have a lot of space around you, and again, I don't know how useful the defensive unit would be.

    Hittites – Maybe. You start with 2 of the techs you'll need for Map Making instead of just 1, but Scouts and 3-Man Chariots are even less useful on this map than usual.

    Iroquois – Yes. The same advantage as the Hittites, but less of the disadvantage.

    Rome/India – reserving judgement because I don't know how important land warfare (tougher Swordsmen that Roman cities can build barracks for more easily, durable Knights that Indian cities can build with fewer citizen revolts) is on higher difficulty Arch maps.


    Anybody else care to join in? I haven't played in years :( and I've come to realize that I'd made a lot of boneheaded mistakes even when I did used to play :shifty:
     
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  2. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Curraghs make for good scouts. Also, a seafaring tribe can build a harbor for half-price, and harbors can be the way that trade routes initially get connected. So, I would make sure to put out a curragh first and put in a harbor early on for a seafaring tribe on a pangea map. For a non-seafraing tribe on an archipelago map, I don't have any sort of specialized ideas.

    I don't foresee that happening on higher levels, especially NOT on Sid.

    It makes for a good pillager.

    On an archipelago map, the usefulness of the musketeer might depend on when you do landings. Also, industrious workers can help you get your 20k city set up faster. If you check the HoF small, standard, and large Sid maps you'll find Carthage used by me in most of my fastest finishes at that level. The reason why I used them lay in that I could build the Pyramids by having Masonry and they start with Alphabet. France would almost have done as well as them, because I could have built The Pyramids and I started with Alphabet. So, if playing for a 20k on Sid with a great start or probably with a weaker start on Demi-God or Deity, I would probably pick France ahead of just about everyone except Carthage.

    On archipelago maps, if you have your home island to yourself and not have other islands or island block them, it almost always ends up possible to make it so that the AI will predictably plop their units right next down to your capital. The militaristic trait helps to get elites, so Rome has a somewhat desireable trait.
     
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  3. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    A lot depends on the size of the map you are playing on. I play exclusively on either Continent or Archipelago maps, with none smaller than what the game calls "Huge" or 160 X 160 tiles. Even at that size, on Archipelago, you get islands that are close to Continent in size, while with continent, I have gotten two large continents with a bunch of very small islands around them. Given that, and the tendency for the map generator to put goody huts near the coast. a Scout on a Curragh/Galley makes for a good exploring unit, even on Pangaea maps. As for the Spanish Conquistador, I would agree with Spoonwood as to the usefulness. Some of my continents on my larger maps, say 240 X 240 tiles to 360 X 360, to in one case, 400 X 180, s non-Seafaring civilization is not that hampered, as the land masses can be larger than a Pangaea on a 100 X 100 map. On the 400 X 180 map, with the continent setting, there are two continents that are about 150 tiles east-west and about 60 tiles north-south. The non-Seafaring civilizations do about as well as the Seafaring ones.
     
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  4. ThinkTank

    ThinkTank RL Addict

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    That's not possible on an unmodded game, right? Or am I missing something?
     
  5. justanick

    justanick Emperor

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    No. Curraghs in the Mesopotamia scenario included in Conquests can carry one unit.
     
  6. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    I just about always play on one of my modded maps, so I am not sure what a curragh will carry in the standard game. The curraghs actually built by the Picts in Scotland and the Gaels in Ireland could carry a fair amount of cargo, and were quite sea-worthy. Tim Severin sailed one with one other crewman from Scotland to Newfoundland. Any boat that can survive in the North Sea and the North Atlantic is definitely seaworthy. I have them set to being able to carry two people, similar to a galley. Galleys in the Mediterranean had very limited cargo room, and very short sea legs, putting in to shore at night whenever possible.
     
  7. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Hey there ThinkTank! Long time no see! I have to wonder if you've fired up a game of civ III lately and how is it going if you have?

    I would classify each of the conquests as a mod.
     
  8. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Just One More Turn

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    My answers are qualified by the difficulty level I play at -- Regent. I would get my head handed to me at levels like Demigod, Deity, or Sid. Most times, I play to build the spaceship because it's fun.

    Playing a seafaring civ on a Pangaea map is not that much different from playing a civ with a late-era UU, e.g., America or Germany. One needs to make good use of the standard game ancient age units, build plenty of workers, and expand sensibly. Using curraghs to circle the big land mass lets me make contact with everyone and trade for AA techs. Since my plans include playing all the way into Modern Times, I have time to get my core developed and build the Hoover Dam somewhere to power my machinery.

    Playing a non-seafaring civ on an Archipelago map is a challenge for me. A lot would depend on how large my home island is; whether it has a source of fresh water; how close the nearest AI and unoccupied islands are. I've never played (let alone won) a one-city-challenge, so I am not confident in running an empire with only a few, small-ish cities.
     

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