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Just gonna up and say it...

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Takagi Hiro, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

    Joined:
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    In my opinion, bad events are 100% anti-fun. When playing this game, you want to be making progress, not experiencing consistent setbacks. Having your whole economy tank or losing your wonder due to some ice age, then having corrupt ministers or some silliness ruining otherwise good play is immersion breaking.

    Why do we need bad events in this game, anyway?

    Thematically, Civilization is a game about progressing through the eras, always pressing onward, always making new gains. So why is it that the player has to be consistently set back for doing just so? These nasty maluses completely destroy such a theme.

    Like, okay. I like events. I like the idea behind it. But when you pick that event choice and roll your eyes for experiencing an ice age in the middle of a desert, or have some hurricane smack your otherwise impressive capital, you do start to feel bitter about the whole thing. When you open that event window, you want to be pleased you did. You want to make a meaningful choice that helps progress you onwards... not be grimacing as you pick the lesser of all evils.

    These are perhaps the mere ramblings of a Civilization veteran, but to me such spiteful RNG does not belong in this game. I really, really, really hope we can take a second look at things, because I feel that events really add to the game... when you're not merely watching your progress become entirely meaningless.

    Just an example here. Five cities. Rapid expansion. Ice age. -10 gold per turn? OH, SURE, I CAN AFFORD THAT. -2 production in all cities? YEAH, OKAY, I GUESS I'LL SKIP MY MILITARY.

    I mean, come on... Do we really need this? Thoughts, my friends?
     
  2. Funak

    Funak Deity

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    Ehm, because that's how history is made? Plagues strike, Volcanoes erupt, Hailstorms happen.

    Honestly natural and unnatural disasters have probably been the main driving-force behind history since forever.
     
  3. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    I knew you'd disagree the moment I looked at your username. ;)

    Nah, just kidding. Kind of.
     
  4. Wodhann

    Wodhann South American Norse God

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    I suggested before that bad events should be based on two things:

    1 - Unhappiness ("corruption events")

    2 - Score (higher players having higher chances of getting bad events)


    1, because unhappiness should have you be constantly on edge, and 2, to remove a bit of the snowballiness in the game.


    I agree straight-up bad events are unfun if they are completely random and happen too often.
     
  5. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    I feel like even when a bad event occurs, there should at least be some positive element to it. Lose something, but gain another. I can understand Funak's point here, but all the same, it's not making history any more fun to trod through.
     
  6. Deadstarre

    Deadstarre Expert

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    agree with op and i said the same thing awhile ago. what i said was that "bad" events should be "bad" in the sense that the free xp ancient ruins are bad; still *technically* a positive, but also near worthless. truly bad events that actually set you back have no place in this game whatsoever- thats not what civ was ever about so far as i know.

    unhappiness already has penalties, it doesnt need more.
     
  7. Takagi Hiro

    Takagi Hiro Prince

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    Great minds think alike! :crazyeye:
     
  8. Wodhann

    Wodhann South American Norse God

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    Sure it does. VP's unhappiness penalties are lighter than vanilla's. And bad events are a much more interesting way to do it.
     
  9. Gothic_Empire

    Gothic_Empire AKA, Ramen Empire

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    I agree with Takagi. I think that bad events should be in this narrative because of how our civ pulled it together in spite of a badness and pushed forward. Interpret an eruption as punishment from the gods? lose population but gain faith. An opportunity to study the earth? Lose pop but gain science. A fortunate distraction in the media war against you on behalf of the indigenous peoples? Lose population, but gain tiles.

    But Gazebo's mod can be in his own image. There's no reason we can't take Event and keep a positive or balance version of it updated alongside his work in developing it. It's been developped with modders in mind. Also, I don't think we have the event mod fleshed out enough to have the tinge of excitement that's meant to come about when we see the notification. There are still a lot of negative events compared to positive ones and that absolutely jades how we see them.
     
  10. Gangrin

    Gangrin Warlord

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    Well, i don't know if i somehow mangled my installation or if E&D does NOT works well with basic CBP, but i am alarmed by events as well, in particular their frequency. 50 turns on epic speed - i had 5 or 6 "Famous pirate" events. I have 4 mountains in my empire. Every single one erupted and killed 3 (or was it 4?) pops in my cities. Free general for 1k gold? I had like 7 of them. This seems... strange to me. So, did i somehow botched installation? Or should i just stop using E&D? Or does someone else have same experience?
     
  11. Jdoug312

    Jdoug312 Warlord

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    This. I honestly love how the event system works.
     
  12. Natura

    Natura Warlord

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    One of the biggest issues I feel with the current events system is just related to how small the pool of events is right now. If you build a city near a mountain then it becomes all but inevitable that at some time that thing is going to blow. Public schools may as well give +10% Culture or +10% Gold as a base yeild because it feels like they pop for every school in your empire. Same goes for Factories.

    Currently there's quite a bit of Beyond Earth in these events, as a lot of them (even the majority) are linked to buildings. I'm not sure I like that too much; if we're going down the Beyond Earth route I'd much prefer to see linked quests making an appearance; if we want narrative creating history, then that's a good path to take. Also more events need to be not just straight up bad; the volcano event for example should realistically be raising crop yields over the area after the devastation is cleared away.
     
  13. skodkim

    skodkim Deity

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    Agree!

    Love the new event system so far (using 4/9b version). Only complaint so far is that I think almost all my monuments have gotten the boost (forgot details on the event right now, but you can choose +1 culture/faith,...). Probably the chance of this happening should be lowered imho.

    \Skodk
     
  14. kvn_m

    kvn_m Chieftain

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    I played EU4 so I'm sort of at home with bad events. I like that some of the bad events could be solved if you have the necessary pre-requisites.

    It would be cool, I guess, if bad events are also more tightly linked to the surroundings (I haven't followed them closely enough though. Like if x natural disasters can only happen in coastal cities or only in a city with more than x number of desert tiles/tundra tiles). I mean you can argue that the desert/tundra tiles already punish you enough with bad yields...

    I think the gain/loss nature should be closer to decision making instead of events, though. It's more realistic that bad events don't necessarily have a gain aspect from it.
     
  15. Moi Magnus

    Moi Magnus Emperor

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    I think that the main problem if events like volcans, monuments, ... is that they are desined to appen in every City : the event will try to trigger when you build the monument (and have an higth enougth pop), if it fail, ut will try again few turn latter with à greater probability, if it fail again, it will try again with greater probability... until it succeed.
    The initial probability does not gives the probability to appen, but the probability to appen quickly.
    I think I will just put a 0 to all the "delta-probability" in my games, so events will not be forced to appen on every cities.

    Another problem is that if you put two Times more event, you will have two times more events trigering. Old events will still trigger the same number of times.
    What I would want is having the same number of triggered events independently of the number of possible events, but it may be complex to implement.
     
  16. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    I think good/bad events ratio could depend on difficulty level. So, if playing Settler, 80% of events are good, and if playing Deity, 80% of events are bad.
    It will be fairer than granting free units and techs from turn 0. It will keep difficulty low or high throughout the whole game, not just the beginning.
     
  17. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Agree. Some events should not happen even when their conditions are met, so you can have something new for the next game.
     
  18. hokath

    hokath King

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    This is not quite right. There is now a "global cooldown" between events proccing. This puts a limit on the frequency of events occurring. So, if there were enough events that the chance was that one happens every turn, then adding more events has no effect on total frequency.
     
  19. Deluxe

    Deluxe Warlord

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    Events are fun for flavors, working both ways. That's something I love in CK2.

    But if I remember well, events can be disabled ? (not now because G. wants feedbacks, but in the long run) ?
     
  20. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    But that means the second event is just waiting for the cooldown to occur. It's better like Magnus say, to trigger it once or miss forever. It is only understandable for testing, you may want to see events now and then to try to find any bug.
     

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